r/PowerScaling • u/Valdish • Nov 15 '23
Kratos being anything above country level, with normal human speed would mean the writing in god of war games sucks. Games
People will tell me that they can't show Kratos destroying a planet on screen because of gameplay limitations, or whatever, but they could easily show it in cutscenes as shown in Asuras wrath where they show how Asura killed a god the size of a planet by punching it's finger, and in Okami where she was shown on screen how Amaterasu spins a galaxy, Kratos doesn't have any visual feats like that, only statements which if they aren't being misinterpreted would mean they're inconsistent with what we see for no reason, which is bad writing.
Edit: by normal human speed, I mean relatively normal, it's probably more like peak human speed, but not faster than those wolves that pull his sled.
Edit2: I realize I may have not made my point very well. The problem isn't that Kratos doesn't have any on screen feats supporting his stated feats, the problem is that if his stated feats are as the power scalers have interpreted them, his onscreen feats contradict them, and if Kratos feats are really so inconsistent, then that is bad writing.
65
u/Working_Practice3324 Mid Level Scaler Nov 15 '23
Well I would disagree with him being only country level but I would agree that he doesn't have feats only statement
18
u/RedditIsFacist1289 Nov 15 '23
Wouldn't his feats come from the fact that he killed Zeus and all the gods of olympus? He basically absorbs all of them and goes above
18
u/IronLordSamus Nov 15 '23
Yeah but visually its just him beating the until they goo.
10
u/haboruhaborukrieg Nov 16 '23
Well that was the same with Goku vs Beerus, punches that would destroy galaxies and they just tanked it
→ More replies (3)3
u/ClarkWoo2 Nov 19 '23
The difference between Goku and Beerus is Goku already has scaling to other characters who have multi galaxy - universal + feats and statements so increasing it via statements from several characters including the narrator is vastly different from Kratos only having statement s
3
u/haboruhaborukrieg Nov 19 '23
But still same logic, if two unimaginably strong characters are punching eachother that don't mean they should destroy surroundings. And Kratos kinda flipped 9 realms without ease so he did prove his strenght. It's not an anime after all they won't talk about eachothers feats and there's no need of a narrator that wouldn't fit in GoW.
Imagine Kratos fighting Baldur and some dude's saying stuff in the background like "two gods fighting surviving punches that are Star level". Don't want and don't need that dumbsh*t here
→ More replies (4)2
u/ConfidentVisual4949 Dec 10 '23
You act like Uranus didn’t blatantly create the universe.
Or Thor didn’t blatantly break the yggrasil
11
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Well here's my argument for Kratos being country level in strength at absolute most.
Atlas is stated to be the strongest titan physically very likely to be stronger than Cronos, and he has the greatest visual strength feat in the entire series, lifting the Greek world above hades. All evidence we have suggests that the Greek world is the size of the country of Greece and it's surrounding seas. Atlas is not shown lifing anything infinite, and even if he supposedly was lifing the skies too, it's just empty space that doesn't weigh anything, and he's not lifting Hades so it doesn't matter if the dev statement about it being infinite is true (it probably isn't infinite cause with how the world in god of war work, that kind of doesn't make sense)
With that being kept in mind, Kratos never killed atlas, and the only time they directly matched their strength was when Atlas tried to crush Kratos between his fingers and Kratos resisted it, which most likely wasn't atlas using all his strength, just considering the logistics of using only 2 fingers instead of all 4 of his arms.
38
u/ApprehensiveEase534 Nov 15 '23
Brother the sky isn’t “empty” lol. If you added up all of the molecules in the sky it would be trillions upon trillions of pounds. Probably more.
8
u/EspacioBlanq Nov 15 '23
It isn't empty, but it exerts virtually no downward force, so it's pretty easy to lift
2
Nov 15 '23
i mean it is infinite so does it even matter?
7
u/EspacioBlanq Nov 15 '23
The atmosphere is finite and the rest of the sky is quite literally weightless wrt Earth
5
2
u/sayonara49 Nov 15 '23
The only reason it’s like that is cuz Atlas is lifting it
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (8)2
u/abughorash Nov 15 '23
The sky (atmosphere) exerts a downward force exactly equal to its weight of trillions of pounds. That's how gravity and the 3rd Law of Motion work; gravity acts on sky, sky acts on you. You just don't feel it when walking around because the sky isn't dense; the sky directly above a single person weighs only around 15 pounds. But lifting the whole sky means lifting its entire weight of multiple quintillion (trillion trillion) pounds.
Of course what exactly the "sky" is and what work is performed by "lifting" it is never explicitly explained in the God of War video games so nobody can say for sure how much of this applies to Atlas.
3
u/Historical-Bake2005 Nov 16 '23 edited Nov 16 '23
A quintillion is not a trillion trillions, it’s a million trillions. The total weight of the atmosphere is also only approximated to be 5 quadrillion pounds. You’re off by a factor of 200 million lol.
4
u/FancyEveryDay Nov 15 '23
5.5 quadrillion pounds total, but in God of war the sky might include the stars, sun, and moon
→ More replies (1)6
73
u/KamixAkaDio Nov 15 '23
See, with games, lore and gameplay are not always the same. The powerscaling not being properly represented in the gameplay doesnt make the writing in the game bad, but it makes the powerscaling representation bad.
The elder scrolls is a perfect example of this. The Last Dragonborn is literally high 1-A to 1-S, and what do you get in the game? A chump that can die to regular bandits.
16
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
They specifically pointed out that they weren't talking about gameplay, and how it could have been shown in other ways. This isn't a lore / gameplay issue. Its not shown in lore either.
The elder scrolls is a perfect example of this. The Last Dragonborn is literally high 1-A to 1-S, and what do you get in the game? A chump that can die to regular bandits.
Well if it helps, that's internet fanon, not a thing that's actually true in the game.
8
u/KamixAkaDio Nov 15 '23
for TES, the game mechanics were never canon to the lore. It's not internet fanon, it's canonical lore.
7
u/Bradybigboss Nov 15 '23
I think the poster just meant the tiering systems we use (1A, etc) have no actual meaning in any of these verses lol. I also could not be understanding their comment
2
u/DS343 Nov 16 '23
That's pretty much true. Bunker_man is known for his despise of the tiering system.
3
u/Powerful-Employee-36 Jan 01 '24
Well if it helps, that's internet fanon, not a thing that's actually true in the game.
Maybe you can explain the "fanon" when he beat Alduin twice and took the Eye of Magnus powers?
Like seriously, you really need stop and begin read the lore before claiming thing like "meh not true in game" when the thing literally happened lol.
3
u/bunker_man Jan 01 '24
You are kind of proving the point here though. Listing a random thing he did of ambiguous scope Doesn't override... the entire plot of the game, which does not depict him as infinite strength or speed, or even close to it. The fight against alduin has an ambiguous scope, so vaguely waving to alduin being prophesied to destroy reality at some time in the future via ambiguous means after getting stronger isn't something you can create a scaling chain off of.
There are countless possible interpretations of how alduin works that don't require this hypothetical infinite stats dragonborn to beat him. The fact that people can think up an interpretation of the fight that does doesn't override everything else.
→ More replies (1)10
u/2nnMuda Nov 15 '23
Imagine dying to bandits post Alduin lmao
I think not being able to break walls is a better example for this
→ More replies (3)3
u/KamixAkaDio Nov 15 '23
Bandit leaders with their power attacks on legendary can one shot you, if you haven't done proper smithing to boost your armor
4
u/2nnMuda Nov 15 '23
Which only applies to a low level scrub.
When someone mentions the ldb its probably post MQ and DLC since that's the shit they use to scale him for the most part.
At that point those same bandits can't put a dent into your healthbar.
9
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
I wasn't talking about gameplay, cutscenes are not gameplay, and Kratos is never shown to be all that fast in those, and his best strength feat is resisting getting crushed by Cronos, who is weaker than Atlas even at full strength, but Cronos was even weaker at that point than he normally would be from centuries of torture.
10
u/KamixAkaDio Nov 15 '23
Well, I have not played GoW, so I merely assumed that it was related to gameplay. If it's like that, even in the cutscenes, then that's a problem, yes.
6
2
4
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
Some people confusingly think cutscenes are gameplay. Literally everything is gameplay except whatever random statement they think makes the character stronger than gameplay.
48
u/PEtroollo11 Nov 15 '23
kratos being anything above single atom level is bad writing
26
24
10
u/Alchemist628 Nov 15 '23
Inconsistent power isn't bad writing at all, writers are trying to write compelling stories, not cater to power scaling.
2
u/Bublee-er Nov 17 '23
Even in cutscenes within the game it starts to feel inconsistent tho. Like his fight with "the stranger" who is Baldur only to take forever killing slightly large wolved next second.
1
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
I mean, this is an admission that he probably isn't meant to be that strong though, since the assumption that he is doesn't come from direct evidence but from a claim that "consistency" suggests he must be. And even that is wrong, since it introduces contradictions on the lower end.
6
Nov 16 '23
doesnt come from direct evidence? nigga when i give you evidence you say that they can't be applied for combat because you don't think the character did it with full power but instead headcanon your way out claiming that he did it through hax
0
u/Blakemiles222 Nov 19 '23
Inconsistent power scaling makes the story far worse to me personally. Kinda kills a story for me when I realize power scaling won’t make any sense. Accurate power scaling is one of my favorite things in a story.
36
u/Synchrohayba Nov 15 '23
Kratos is wanted to oblivion ngl
11
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
I blame Seth the programmer. Easily the worst thing he ever did.
50
10
6
2
u/Captain-Stubbs Nov 16 '23
Hey, Seth the Programmer was the dude that popularized the concept of universal+ Naruto
→ More replies (1)0
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 16 '23
Wrong anything ranging 4D is not wank
8
u/Synchrohayba Nov 16 '23
Bro dimensionality scaling is debatable at best
0
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 16 '23
Elaborate
5
u/Synchrohayba Nov 16 '23
Dimensional scaling is not consistent from verse to verse + doesn't necessarily mean you are immune to lower dimensions + I don't even know where 4 D jratos even came from
→ More replies (3)
22
u/RedNUGGETLORD Nov 15 '23
The Primordials created the universe, the gods are stronger than the Primordials according to the writers, Kratos is stronger than the gods.
Not saying that Kratos is universal, just that he is at the very least planetary, not country.
24
u/AscendedKars1 Nov 15 '23
There's no real reason he is anything less than universal lol, he directly scales above the primordials and has only gotten stronger
16
u/RedNUGGETLORD Nov 15 '23
But the primordials TOGETHER created the universe, it's not like each made their own, so he is probably at a safe bet multi-large-galaxy
9
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 15 '23
Uranus got the universe punched out of him. The other primordials formed the earth.
Some primordials also created their own universe. Nyx and Thanatos.
0
3
u/AscendedKars1 Nov 15 '23
Well there's multiple realms in GoW greek's reality, like hell which is infinite and the regular universe is also infinite
4
u/Omni_Xeno Nov 16 '23
said writing makes kratos wall level lmao
2
u/AscendedKars1 Nov 20 '23
Because they bring game logic into it, to describe to players what happens like its on screen lol. Kratos still uni+ young man
2
u/Omni_Xeno Nov 20 '23
That inherently makes no sense and is heavily flawed, also Gameplay, Scenes, and once again writing literally prove Kratos to be FAR below Uni lmao
→ More replies (2)4
u/Professional-Media-4 Nov 15 '23
I can build a house. Does that make me building level?
4
3
u/ConfidentVisual4949 Nov 19 '23
For the last time stop comparing building to creation it’s a false equivalence. You build a house with outside tools over a long period of time. None of this happened in god of war. They created matter out of nothing and instantly made universes.
3
u/AscendedKars1 Nov 20 '23
If you beat someone who instantly creates a house with his fists and can tank his own fists, yes. Nice, valid comparison.
2
u/Malchior_Dagon Nov 16 '23
Isn't that logic one of the reasons why Bowser and Mario were scaled so high? I thought that Bowser was considered universal since he held the power of the Grand Star, which showed the power to create a universe (Or something along those lines, could have been galaxy level)
6
u/Professional-Media-4 Nov 16 '23
I always thought creation feats are separate from destructive feats.
→ More replies (1)2
5
u/KriosXVII Nov 15 '23
I think the element of time is too easily discounted in power scaling.
The primordials created the universe. In how long? There's an immense difference in power output between doing it over 4 billion years vs instantly.For example, maybe Kratos can destroy a mountain in one minute.
To destroy an entire mountain range, country, or planet, he'd have to do it piece by piece, which would take a significant time.→ More replies (3)4
u/GlaiveGary Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23
Not necessarily stronger than their respective predecessors. This progression of defeats isn't from raw power, it's from a combination of cunning, skill, underhanded tactics, weakness exploitation, and determination.
Kratos straight up loses a slugfest with most of his bossfights, and has to wear them down and outmaneuver them instead.
Remember how Thor was absolutely clapping kratos, literally killed him, and made a choice to walk away from the fight after getting one tooth knocked out?
2
u/Synchrohayba Nov 15 '23
Where was if mentioned that the gods were stronger than the primordials ?
→ More replies (5)14
u/RedNUGGETLORD Nov 15 '23
Uranus, the strongest primordial, lost to Cronos, who lost to Zeus, who lost to Kratos
2
u/JagoMajin Nov 16 '23
Pretty sure Kratos needed Hope to kill Zeus, if he never opened the box back in GoW1 to start with, he would have gotten stomped years ago
→ More replies (12)4
u/Synchrohayba Nov 15 '23
Well yeah , but that doesn't mean all primordial are weaker than the olympians, sister of fates are clearly stro ger than the majority of olympus
5
u/RedNUGGETLORD Nov 15 '23
Yeah, the sisters are the strongest, but I'm talking about it in a general sense, it seems pretty obvious that the Olympian gods are stronger than Cronos(or at least, Hades, Zeus and Poseidon) who is stronger than the Uranus, meaning that on average, the Olympians are the strongest if they are even stronger than the (second?) strongest titan.
Kratos = Sisters > Olympians > Titans > Primordials <<<<< The ship captain
→ More replies (1)6
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23
sister of fates are clearly stro ger than the majority of olympus
They're only "strong" because of their hax. In raw combat they would lose to any brother king or Ares. They don't outscale.
all primordial are weaker than the olympians
Fodder like Helios can beat up Morpheus and Nyx.
Kratos beat Thanatos before he even became a full god.
→ More replies (2)1
u/JPKpretzelz Nov 15 '23
In fairness Kratos didn’t stand a chance without Hope, it’s kinda unfair.
→ More replies (3)2
u/JagoMajin Nov 16 '23
Exactly, he only won a majority of his fights because he had Hope, which is literally credited as "the power to kill a god", he was told this before he took on Ares too, that he needed to draw upon the power in the box to stand a chance, the only thing that really changed after that is that he never lost it until the end of GoW3 supposedly
1
u/NickWazowskii Nov 15 '23
see this is what I don't get, how does creating something scale you there? if a group of people make a nuke, does that make them city level? no, I don't know why creation is equated to power level
1
u/RedNUGGETLORD Nov 15 '23
Creating, for example, a universe, is much harder than destroying one
5
u/NickWazowskii Nov 15 '23
that doesn't necessarily mean they have that power of output though, creating doesn't require any strength or power level (depending on the fandom), for example, the kais are responsible for creation in the universe but they are viewed as quite weak
→ More replies (3)1
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
If we trust the writer statements, then according to the guy who invented Kratos, he gets stomped by spiderman.
5
Nov 15 '23
That scan is fake, inspect element
4
13
u/SolarPhoenix77 Nov 15 '23
By this logic, the Dragonborn, Doomslayer, Sora from KH, Dante, Sephiroth (and insert the innumerable amount of video game characters here) are not even planetary because “we only count physical feats.” I’m really tired of people who NEED to see a planet or universe explode for characters to be scaled to such levels. Most writers don’t care about displaying power scaling that way. That’s why you have to take lore into account. It doesn’t mean plot holes exists bc they’re so strong they should be able to “show it”. By this logic any character in fiction going FTL absolutely obliterates the town they’re in due to the sheer speed they’re traveling at.
I thought only counting physical feats was an argument of the past.
7
u/speedymcspeedster21 Nov 15 '23
Except 'lore' may as well be glorified fanfiction with how far people try to twist it from the character's portrayal. Sure characters may be a little stronger than their gameplay counterpart, but there's a big difference between slaying a dragon or huge demon and nuking a universe.
Also, literally yes. None of those characters are even close to planet level. Sephiroth maybe if you count the black materia. Cosmic level power should start being treated like it is. If you can't imagine the character soaring around a galaxy destroying planets casually, then they shouldn't be put remotely close to that level. Doomslayer gonna destroy a galaxy with his shotgun? xD
Show, don't tell is one of the first rules of writing. Yet powerscalers are all about tell, never show.
3
4
u/SolarPhoenix77 Nov 16 '23
That’s the entire point of powerscaling tho, interpreting a characters power based off facts (ie, what’s been both shown and stated). Also, not gonna get into showing the plethora amount of info that proves each of those characters are insanely strong (that’s not even the point of this thread).
Lore counting as acceptable evidence in powerscaling is one of the best things that’s happened to this community. And I’m glad it’ll stay that way based off what we’ve seen.
2
u/Powerful-Employee-36 Jan 01 '24
but there's a big difference between slaying a dragon
If by "dragon" mean Alduin then he isn't a dragon, he is a Dragon God.
None of those characters are even close to planet level.
Not really in case of the Last Dragonborn who literally defeated destroyer multiverse-God twice.
2
u/Ok_Stand859 Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
Also god of war is a take on Greek & Norse Mythology. And those same mythologies didn't have big Cosmic fights like destroying galaxies and such. Because people back in those days didn't have a solid grasp on the cosmos and what it truly means to have cosmic characters. So they just based it around the world (the part of the world where they lived, as an example the Greeks believed in the olympians so it's 95% based around Greece and it's realms). So having a big Cosmic battle in a game that wants you to explore the mythology, and is supposed to feel and be like the actual Mythology isn't gonna happen.
Poseidon shakes the world, Atlas holds up the cosmos Thor strikes a giant so hard that it gets sent out of the universe and lands in Hel. And yet no big Cosmic fights where they destroy galaxies over and over again, isn't seen anywhere. Only planetary to universal feats here and there from time to time, but not having huge Cosmic battles all the time.
2
u/DislikesSand May 01 '24
By this logic, the Dragonborn, Doomslayer, Sora from KH, Dante, Sephiroth (and insert the innumerable amount of video game characters here) are not even planetary because “we only count physical feats.”
Yes
I’m really tired of people who NEED to see a planet or universe explode for characters to be scaled to such levels.
Doesn't matter. It takes no effort to do that.
That’s why you have to take lore into account. It doesn’t mean plot holes exists bc they’re so strong they should be able to “show it”.
If the plot doesn't work with the 'true' power level of a character found in the 'lore' and works instead with the power level of what we see and no more, it means the true power level is what we see. Fictional characters are made for their narrative.
By this logic any character in fiction going FTL absolutely obliterates the town they’re in due to the sheer speed they’re traveling at.
Strawman.
0
u/SolarPhoenix77 May 02 '24
No
It takes a HUGE amount of effort to show that lmao not every writer can have their planet blow up to prove it to random Reddit users
No
No again
2
u/DislikesSand May 02 '24
No
Yes
It takes a HUGE amount of effort to show that lmao not every writer can have their planet blow up to prove it to random Reddit users
I just drew a galaxy blowing up. It's easy to show the power you want. It's hard to write a story around it.
No
You don't have any arguments against this. Try harder.
No again
Yes. It is by definition a strawman.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"
10
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23
Amaterasu spins a galaxy
someone didn't play.... the very first game of the franchise
Also there are literal statements about a character being able to destroy the sun in GOW and he's beneath Kratos.
14
Nov 15 '23
I'm tired of the old "Character A could do this and was beaten by Character B, so that means Character B can do whatever Character A did."
If someone can control time but got their ass whooped because they're dumb as fuck, that doesn't mean the character who beat them now transcends time
6
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 16 '23
This is especially the case when dealing with gods who it might just be something they can intrinsically do which doesn't translate to general power. Or something that isn't battle applicable.
In actual ancient myths, normal humans got one over on gods fairly often. There was an understanding that while they are super strong or knowledgeable in some contexts, it's not every context.
6
Nov 16 '23
trying to argue inconsistency over the theme of a game is disingenuous and shows that you just don't like Kratos being strong
5
u/bunker_man Nov 16 '23
It would help if there was any actual direct evidence for the cosmic stuff people keep trying to assume.
3
Nov 16 '23
How about devs saying that Uranos vs Cronos was a cosmic battle?
Or Uranos having the universe punched out of his face in the intro of ascension? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyo45AIJR6U&t=14s
or Surtr creating every star https://www.youtube.com/watchv=W7yB5AzN9j0
→ More replies (5)6
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23
I'm tired of the old "Character A could do this and was beaten by Character B, so that means Character B can do whatever Character A did."
This verbatim applies in the case of Ares considering Kratos literally replaced him as the God of War thus inheriting his entire power set.
As for the second part time manip is not an AP/DC feat. If char A can screw over a star char A has star level dura.
If Char B can in turn harm Char A they would have to have the same level of AP.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
You want to elaborate on this? Kratos isn't doing anything like that in the scene you linked, I see something that looks like a galaxy in the background, but I can't seen anyone doing anything to it.
6
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23
It was made by Ares. Who is miles beneath Kratos.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Well, if you insist on that being what happens in it, instead of it being like a small pocked dimension or an illusion, then I guess you're right, god of war really does have garbage writing, full of egregious plot holes.
1
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
Tbf it's a myth. The sun is probably like 1000 feet long.
→ More replies (7)2
Nov 16 '23
what kind of logic is this lmao, you are utterly laughable
4
u/bunker_man Nov 16 '23
You're talking about a game where the different planes canonically correspond to single countries. It would actually be wildly illogical to assume stars and so on functuon like real life when you know how small the scope of most of the stories actually are.
2
Nov 16 '23
Are we using this shit again, you are making me laugh
4
u/bunker_man Nov 16 '23
You can laugh, but it's not going to generate any explicit evidence of Kratos as massively strong. Laugh harder, maybe some will sprout eventually.
2
Nov 17 '23
You can laugh, but it's not going to generate any explicit evidence of Kratos as massively strong. Laugh harder, maybe some will sprout eventually.
i already gave you evidence, you tried to use a shitty debunk and i gave debunks to them
but if you want evidence again then sure, i can give you
oath guardians reality warping to create a pocket dimension full of stars
garm chewing the very fabric of nine realms which are their own space time continuums proven by mimir statement or realm shift distorting space time which shifts a realm as a result or this
each of these realms have their own solar systems and stars which is proven by not only the source material but also cory
sky is infinite and atlas lifts up the entire greek world everything
underworld is a space-time as well and infinte further proof
midgard physically contains an infinite amount of alternate timelines
Yggdrasil is infinite in size
→ More replies (0)
9
u/Bicstronkboy Nov 15 '23
No, it actually means the opposite, if they had kratos destroy a literal world, then what's the point of the incredibly compelling story? I like how you say this like cross media power scaling is a primary aspect of good storytelling, but it's not, and it actually makes shows and games worse. They easily could have just made a game where kratos is the only protagonist and just solos the entire thing, destroying realms and smacking up gods, but instead, they decided to tell a downright amazing story.
5
u/bott52 Nov 15 '23
Valid point, it's not like they didn't have 6 games of Kratos doing that prior to this compelling story 😂 Them grounding Kratos and making him re-realize the need to use his power is what made it work. People need to stop worrying about the scaling.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
I don't know if this is a hot take around here, but in my opinion, stories having plot holes is a bad thing. Especially if those plot holes were easily avoided if Kratos wasn't as powerful as power scalers think he is.
2
u/Bicstronkboy Nov 15 '23
When the plot holes are about ridiculous power scaling feats, especially ones that negate the entire story, then no, they do not matter. It would only serve to make the game worse.
Also, Kratos in 2018 and ragnorok was super nerfed, according to the devs he lost most of his super OP shit after he nuked the pantheon. Said he lost his connection to Olympus or smthin.
2
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
Writers know this though. So what reason is there to think that when this story would work better if he was less strong that we are supposed to take literally that he has incomprehensible strength when it isn't actually required to make sense of the story and introduces more contradictions than it fixes?
1
u/MoneyAgent4616 Nov 15 '23
He wasn't nerfed, he lost some gear and magic abilities that were tied to the homeland he destroyed but old Kratos would beat young Kratos 10/10 times. The story isn't about Kratos being an unbeatable God in the most recent games, it's about him raising his son to be able to live without him. Kratos nerfed himself as not to "carry" Atreus through the entire thing but to let him grow and learn how to be himself.
It's canon that he could have single handedly killed the entire Norse pantheon with ease if he wanted. It's just he didn't. He's still just ad capable of a warrior as he was in the past he just lost a couple magic tricks.
15
u/ZegarPizdeczka Nov 15 '23
And why would Kratos destroy planets? AP≠DC lol
If you're talking about running speed than ye Kratos is kinda fodder but in C/R speed he's wayyy higher
6
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23
running speed than ye Kratos is kinda fodder
He is not that ass as OP claims tho in the lore he outsped a lightning bolt via pure travel speed
if it doesn't work just replace static with vignette.
9
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
And why would Kratos destroy planets?
To not need Surtur to become ragnarok, if Kratos was able to do it himself, sacrificing Surtur would be redundant, which means that if Kratos can destroy planets, this was terrible writing.
10
Nov 15 '23
realms aren't planets but sure
→ More replies (3)7
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Either way, Surtur didn't destroy the entire realm, he only destroyed the landmass, that if the Greek realm is any indicator, is the size of a country.
Don't forget, Kratos said that in his homeland, people traveled between realms by sea, which means, unless you can make a compelling argument to why I'm wrong, that traveling to another country is what he means by realm travel, which means that realms are the size of countries, and realms are not infinite in size.
6
u/ZegarPizdeczka Nov 15 '23
Crazy how Norse realms were stated to be infinite in size and they're a different space time continuums
5
3
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Where?
-2
u/ZegarPizdeczka Nov 15 '23
Even vsbw tells u this 😭
7
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
And you think vsbw is a reliable source for power scaling?
-3
u/ZegarPizdeczka Nov 15 '23
And why it isn't? Ik they're sometimes retarded but atleast they can back up they're arguments with various sources
6
5
Nov 15 '23
Either way, Surtur didn't destroy the entire realm, he only destroyed the landmass, that if the Greek realm is any indicator, is the size of a country.
No? he destroyed the entire Asgard, there are literally remnants of it through out realms, did you even play the game?
Don't forget, Kratos said that in his homeland, people traveled between realms by sea, which means, unless you can make a compelling argument to why I'm wron
No, every realm has its own version of countries, if you were to go to Egypt in nilfheim, you arrive in Egypt's version of Nilfheim
Heck, they are outright said to hold an infinite amount of timelines/parallel universes PHYSİCALLY
7
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23
No? he destroyed the entire Asgard, there are literally remnants of it through out realms, did you even play the game?
No, I only watched a bunch of plot summary videos, that didn't show what happens after the game, so I am a bit uninformed on that.
No, every realm has its own version of countries, if you were to go to Egypt in nilfheim, you arrive in Egypt's version of Nilfheim
Heck, they are outright said to hold an infinite amount of timelines/parallel universes PHYSİCALLY
I need citation on these, where are these things shown or stated?
2
Nov 15 '23
I need citation on these, where are these things shown or stated?
interviews from math sophos, a bunch of WoG etc...
6
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
So it's not shown or stated in any of the games, it's only stated by the devs who in that part of the video you linked, don't even sound sure about it themselves.
8
Nov 15 '23
it is stated in source material as well
3
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
That clip doesn't have anyone saying anything like what you said.
No, every realm has its own version of countries, if you were to go to Egypt in nilfheim, you arrive in Egypt's version of Nilfheim
Heck, they are outright said to hold an infinite amount of timelines/parallel universes PHYSİCALLY
"He'd control every realm of every world" is not saying that there's an infinite amount of them.
although it does imply that realms are places inside worlds and they're not the same thing, which I'm not sure what that means, but I'd guess all the realms you can travel to in the Norse games are part of the Norse world, and considering helheim is one of those realms, I'd say it's similar to how hades would be a realm in the Greek world.
→ More replies (0)9
u/ZegarPizdeczka Nov 15 '23
Fair point, But that doesn't downscale Kratos to country level, this just means he doesn't have planetary dc
1
0
0
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 15 '23
Kratos would have to go against the strongest army in the realms and Asgard is no normal planet. Stop taking things out of context for your made up narrative
5
u/FUKKATSU_DOUJI Nov 16 '23
People will tell me that they can't show Kratos destroying a planet on screen because of gameplay limitations, or whatever, but they could easily show it in cutscenes
Honestly you wouldn't need to show any of that or obligated to as long as you can provide other evidence such as statements or relativity with other characters or even actual feats that are equivalent of destroying a planet or smth. I think the people ur trying to debate just don't have enough braincells to make a argument
Asuras wrath where they show how Asura killed a god the size of a planet by punching it's finger, and in Okami where she was shown on screen how Amaterasu spins a galaxy,
I would just say this is just a false equivalence that doesn't really get your argument anywhere. Not sure why bro thought this was relevant
Kratos doesn't have any visual feats like that, only statements which if they aren't being misinterpreted would mean they're inconsistent with what we see for no reason, which is bad writing.
Kratos does have plenty of visual feats especially being relative if not stronger than other characters which would be a visual feat. Whether they are planetary or galaxy or even higher is a different conversation. You also say the statements would be inconsistent but for the most part they're usually consistent but if you can't even provide evidence or a example then there's not really a way to discuss it. It being bad writing would be your own opinion but I think you just have a bad argument
by normal human speed, I mean relatively normal, it's probably more like peak human speed, but not faster than those wolves that pull his sled.
There's many different types of speed such as travel speed, combat speed, reaction speed, etc. so this alone just shows you either don't know what ur talking bout and only hate the GOW scalers or ur just purposely leaving it out but either way this argument is just weak. Not to mention you don't need kratos to sprint across a whole realm to say he's a certain speed even excluding the fact there's different speeds.
if his stated feats are as the power scalers have interpreted them, his onscreen feats contradict them, and if Kratos feats are really so inconsistent, then that is bad writing.
Actually most of his fights would show relativity or superiority over other characters which would prove his feats and especially his prior feats and would just consistent. I do understand what you mean like as we see kratos "struggling" to open a chest(lifting strength has nothing to do with AP or DC btw) but we can't forget he usually holds back especially in 4 and 5 plus for example he has no reason to use 100% of his strength all the time. Like opening a chest. We do also see him just smash open chests sometimes.
So in conclusion I just think your argument is just very weak and only a vent about god of war scalers lol. If you got a issue with em then that's yo problem but if you wanna voice your opinion I suggest you should have it be reasonable
5
u/Full_Plate_9391 Nov 17 '23
Kratos doesn't fly around and do stupid anime tricks, but it is very clear that he is far beyond country level with what he IS able to do.
Have you even played God of War 3? Kratos overpowered a titan the size of a mountain. Chronos was squeezing him between two fingers and Kratos was strong enough to keep the fingers apart by outstretching his arms
Kratos' strength is scaled to how much it needs to be at a given moment. Sure, he might struggle to open a rusty chest, but he will still open the chest. And he might struggle to lift a 10,000 ton rock above his head and throw it a mile away, but if he wants to then he will fucking lift a 10,000 ton rock and throw it a mile away.
He's a fucking GOD. His battles have created canyons and mountains and cracked the surface of the world.
5
u/IDontWipe55 Nov 15 '23
Yeah really poor writing. I hate how people that make stuff like this are so interested in the story and gameplay. It’s like they don’t even care about powerscaling
6
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Characters powers being consistent is important for a story, you don't want to have a character destroy a planet only to later struggle with opening a jar.
→ More replies (1)3
u/bott52 Nov 15 '23
But that's part of his character arc is to come back into using his power(s) through necessity of saving his son and then the world
3
u/LizardWizard444 Nov 15 '23
Kratos is based off a mythologic hero which means scaling him and writing him gets weird. Maybe a standard tank can blow him away, maybe being a god puts him on an entirely new level and a purely physical attack doesn't do anything
3
u/No_Researcher9456 Nov 16 '23
Yes because the game would be so fun and engaging if you could just kill everything with a flick just to appease online powerscalers. Are you gonna say he’s human level since he struggles to open wooden chests?
9
u/violetcyanide9 Nov 15 '23
whatever, but they could easily show it in cutscenes as shown in Asuras wrath where they show how Asura killed a god the size of a planet by punching it's finger, and in Okami where she was shown on screen how Amaterasu spins a galaxy,
Guess what's the difference between the games you mentioned (+fate ccc) and doom slayer,dmc and god of war.
They all sold well.for better or worse gamers hate it when you just make em sit for minutes to watch a guy destroys galaxy or universe.they want to play as soon as possible and they don't give a shit about the story or powers.
And for that matter final fantasy(cough sephiroth cough) do have visuals of destroying solar systems and yet the same people will tell you thats just "gameplay".the double standards.
→ More replies (2)9
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Sephiroth being able to destroy a solar system is a plot hole and it therefore absolutely is bad writing because if it's canon, it causes the entire plot to not make any sense, but there is evidence for it not being canon, because that attack wasn't in the original version of the game, and was only added in later, because the devs didn't think his boss fight was epic enough.
4
u/VenandiSicarius Nov 15 '23
While this may be true that it was added at the last minute... I think that kinda proves homie's point though? Visual of him being able to destroy a solar system. "That's just bad writing".
Not saying I agree or disagree, but I am saying this comment sorta proves his point.
2
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
My point wasn't that visual evidence is more important than statements, my point is that inconsistent feats and feats that cause the plot to not make sense is bad writing, and if the feats shown or stated in a game contradict each other while while both being canon, it is bad writing.
→ More replies (2)3
u/violetcyanide9 Nov 15 '23
Sephiroth being able to destroy a solar system is a plot hole and it therefore absolutely is bad writing because if it's canon, it causes the entire plot to not make any sense
Explain
but there is evidence for it not being canon, because that attack wasn't in the original version of the game, and was only added in later, because the devs didn't think his boss fight was epic enough.
How is this evidence for "he shouldn't be this strong" whether you like it or not,whether it was added late or not,it exists.
Besides it was added twice and the original Japanese version had him just straight up create a supernova instead of yeeting a meteor like in its international version.its obvious the game developers wanted him to be that strong.
6
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
Sepiroths plan to destroying a planet was to summon a meteor. If he was able to destroy the solar system instantly, summoning the meteor would be completely redundant since it's more effort for something less destructive, so sepiroth taking redundant steps to achieve his goal is bad writing.
→ More replies (1)3
u/JustARedditAccoumt Nov 15 '23
It's actually pretty simple to explain. The Planet is just stronger than Sephiroth at that point.
That's not a joke, and it's not actually stupid. The Planet in Final Fantasy VII is a living entity, and it's quite powerful and durable. It scales above beings of its own creation like the Summons, Weapons, and Minerva, many of whom have feats on Sephiroth's level, and it contains an entire dimension within it that also transcends space and time.
I don't think it's a stretch to say it's more durable than a normal planet (as a Nasuverse fan, I am pretty well-acquainted with planets that are more power than normal planets).
3
6
u/AlexusMerlux Nov 15 '23
Aren't you the guy that said just cause could beat Alex Mercer?
→ More replies (1)0
u/Valdish Nov 15 '23
I've said a lot of things, don't know why you're bringing it up here where that's a completely irrelevant, but if memory serves, I asked who would win in a fight and then everyone said that Alex stomps because Rico is a completely normal human, which is heavily downplaying him even if he does lose to Alex.
9
u/Future_Adagio2052 New Scaler Nov 15 '23
Nah dude you don't understand Kratos is actually multiversal because of this one statement from one of the games
Stupid kratos downplayer doesn't know how strong kratos really is
16
Nov 15 '23
l because of this one statement from one of the games
50+ statements, feats evidence arguments, wogs interviews etc... but sure
4
u/Fkn_Stoopid Spawn Glazer Nov 15 '23
You are doing god’s work for responding to all the downplayers lol
5
2
u/ConfidentVisual4949 Nov 15 '23
Funny how Kratos fought ares who created his own universes with multiple galaxies seen in it. Yet “Kratos has no cosmos feats only statements”.
5
u/patrickbateman2004 Nov 15 '23
I am surprised the kratos wankers didnt come here yet, except by few. I like to scale based on characters like Asura, that really earn their high scalling (You mentioend Amaterasu, nice).
Some people here think Kratos is even low outerversal here, that he can take a lot of characters way above country level with ease which is funny. Even funnier: There are people he that think sometjing closer with Atreus, that Atreus is very high just a few below his father and that he can defeat many other characters that scale high.
2
u/Square-Ad3024 Nov 15 '23
Doom slayer fanboys are as worse as Kratos fans lol they say he boundless with no feats being planetary
2
u/patrickbateman2004 Nov 15 '23
They are not worse than kratos fanboys and i see kratos fanboys way more. Kratos fanboys also like to scale Atreus high. Doom slayer is strong though not boundless or outer.
3
u/DS343 Nov 15 '23
u/Wise_Title_3929 come take a look at this yapping
2
3
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 15 '23
To add to this u/Kratosisnotwalllevel
4
2
u/KratosIsNotWallLevel Nov 30 '23
Sure.
https://imgur.com/a/NRxdMub#stjyz1o
Entirely explains why there isn't any "universal cutscenes" that the gameplay lovers can jack off to.
3
4
u/AHappyMango Nov 15 '23
Kratos wankers make no sense - “he beat so and so so that makes him stronger and scales past“ bro, he uses special weapons, abilities, allies, and other tactics to win. His best ability is plot armor in his own universe, gtfo.
3
u/Frosty_Public9652 Nov 16 '23
So is scorpion not strong because he uses a fucking spear and hellfire in a fight? This comment is fucking stupid equipment is apart of the character unless specified otherwise. All of the hax and abilities Kratos has is applicable in scaling or vs match ups.
And we’re not going to act like Kratos is weak without all his equipment. His punches and kicks hurt Zeus, Thanatos, Baldur, and Thor.
2
u/bunker_man Nov 15 '23
It is a little bit strange how many people in powerscaling communities seem to not understand that the entire job of storytellers is to try to make the story match up. Characters are not going to generally be consistently and for the most part exhaustively depicted as on one level if it's not supposed to be the level they are.
This usually only happens if it's a character who they use for wildly different types of stories like where superman comics get handed to a new author who wants a lower level story. But that is a unique case. Kratos isnt a pre existing character they were bound by the existing material of. They told the story they wanted to.
1
u/TheChoosenMewtwo Saitama Planetary/don’t have reactive evolution Mar 30 '24
Saying Kratos caps at peak human speed is massive downplay when he tagged Hermes and Heimdall that can be scales to supersonic, and dodged Zeus lightning bolts, which are way above that
1
1
u/Ok-Use5246 Nov 15 '23
I swear Kratos is the only character that is wanked worse then DBZ.
2
u/Square-Ad3024 Nov 15 '23
Scp fan base is forsee lol they say scarlet king beats marvel and Dc and solo fiction
→ More replies (1)
1
u/AnikiSmashFSP Nov 15 '23
A substantial number of power scaling takes contradict the lore of stories. I figured people didn't care about Canon in power scaling community.
1
0
u/Eldritch-Cleaver Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23
Exactly
That means Baldr was smacking Kratos with a tree that has country + durability lmao
0
-1
-1
1
u/Honk_wd Nov 15 '23
Well, I’ve got audio evidence of him being outer or extra or whatever but it’s kinda fucky
3
u/TheRealWalaba Gilles de Rais' number 1 fan Nov 15 '23
what do you have an audio recording of him destroying infinite universes or smth, like you got kratos to do that while you recorded on your phone
2
1
1
u/ConfidentVisual4949 Nov 15 '23
These shitty arguments that attempt to downplay Kratos just get worse and worse
•
u/AutoModerator Nov 15 '23
Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers! https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.