r/PowerScaling • u/mr-rando423 • Aug 24 '24
Which one of these seems the least wanky? Games
Before you ask, yes. I am reconsidering that Kirby scale that I you've might've seen me talk about
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u/itownshend17 Goatku solos DC Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
I dont buy the outer arguments for any of the 3, but I guess Sonic is the one I would believe the easiest with Marios as second and Kirbys as last.
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u/Randomizer7780 The Scaler Summoner Aug 24 '24
None of them, they all have equally ass arguments.
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u/ColdShear MLP scaler Aug 24 '24
The least wanky is Sonic, purely by virtue of scaling higher than the other two. It’s still wank of an unimaginable scale.
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u/Nappa-7288 Aug 25 '24
I can argue Mario with the pure hearts can scale higher than game Super Sonic...
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u/TalmondtheLost Aug 25 '24
Kirby after vacuuming up Sonic, stealing his powers and literally just deleting him from life:
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u/epicrgg Aug 25 '24
Kirby can't steal everyone's power, smash bros Kirby isn't canon and in the Kirby games there are some people he cannot steal powers from
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u/TalmondtheLost Aug 25 '24
Okay. What he gonna do when Kirby wields the power of Cosmic gods.
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u/epicrgg Aug 25 '24
God isn't a feat it's a title, being a god doesn't automatically make you strong especially compared to dragon ball
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u/TalmondtheLost Aug 25 '24
Maybe. But it's also Kirby, where we have a guy who wished for like, ultimate power, and got defeated. And he was making Black Holes like it was nothing.
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
I dunno, Mario has a decent case for being High Hyper to Low Outer, via enduring the Void, which upscales from Dream Depot, which has an innumerable amount of dream sized universes, and dreams can exist within dreams in Dream Depot
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u/artstyle45 the absolute doom goon Aug 24 '24
Sonic, Kirby idk, but Mario is just wanky asf, sonic can atleast hold its own against trash nga’s Mario, anyone who has atleast some form of knowledge on Platonism and vocabulary should know outer Mario is absolute trash
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u/Legends-of-legdens Aug 25 '24
I mean, arguments for Mario being outer come from super paper Mario (which is confirmed canon) as well as Mario and Luigi dream team, both revolving around how Mario had survived the destruction of a dimension or literally beat bowser who had the power over every infinite dream in existance, it’s not better or worse then any feats Kirby and sonic got that get them there
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u/After-Show-3441 Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Yeah, but the problem I have with this is that most Mario fans will say that paper Mario was in his base doing this alone during the Dementio fight.
He had help from multiple people, and was originally going to give up, and had to use certain form to stand a chance against Dementio.
I'd never place any of these characters to outer, at most I put them at hyper. And I like sonic, but even I have my limits.
Edit: are you talking about Dementio not Bowser, I searched around and couldn't find anything about that infinite dimension statement.
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u/Legends-of-legdens Aug 25 '24
Yeah, I’m not saying I put Mario at there, that’s dumb, none of these characters come anywhere close to that level power, universal to multi, sure, they definitely got the feats for that, Solaris, the pure hearts, etc, but saying they’re literally beyond their own cosmology, no? They’ve all fought basically the same beings, doesn’t matter if they’re specified to be like a baby version of the primordial being of time, other characters have done the exact same thing, and it’s not like it’s branching across the entire omniverse, it’s namely a singular world for the most part
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u/Longjumping-Ebb-9057 Aug 25 '24
Eh he still tanked the void though which was going to consume all the worlds
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u/Animegx43 Aug 25 '24
They're all equally dumb.
I guess Kirby is the least by a technicality, but that's because Kirby is a beast.
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u/buzzard2315 Ultimate mid baller Aug 25 '24
All are massive wanks (unless you got comp sonic combining all the cosmology levels then I feel he might be low hyper though normal sonic is a massive wank he’s low comp multi Mario is confusing but I reckon the highest you can get him is 4D (paper Mario) and I don’t know here Kirby scales but it isn’t going to be hyper or anything higher
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Yeah, the highest point you can scale Kirby to is Low Complex Multiversal, as Kirby's cosmology reaches 5D thanks to Another Dimension, and there's the entire thing with the Master Crown and Void Termina.
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u/buzzard2315 Ultimate mid baller Aug 25 '24
So sonic is the closest as you can high ball modern game sonic to 6D and classic sonic has good arguments for 6D (in super form and presumably hyper as well)
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
I would like to know what those arguments are tbh, nowadays I barely see anything for Game Sonic since his own fans understimate him a lot because they focus more on Archue Sonic.
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u/buzzard2315 Ultimate mid baller Aug 25 '24
Infinite is stated stronger then any of sonics previous enemies which would include Solaris which would make that 5/6D which is flimsy but an argument for modern sonic and I know classic sonic gets it form sonic Mania but I would have to recheck to fully know how it works
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u/buzzard2315 Ultimate mid baller Aug 25 '24
Never-mind it comes Form generations I think as the time eater did completely erase both the modern and classic worlds and both sonics were completely fine and did eventually beat the time eater which gets their AP to 6D (I got this from being battles wiki so might be inaccurate)
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u/RhysOSD Aug 24 '24
Honestly, Kirby. Since his final battles are usually on the cosmic scale.
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u/Notmas Aug 25 '24
So are Sonic's tho
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u/RhysOSD Aug 25 '24
True. Honestly, he's a very close second
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u/Notmas Aug 25 '24
I don't really know much about Kirby scaling so I can't really say lol
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Kirby scaling is a but weird ngl, if we're counting exclusively the game versions of the 3 characters here (meaning no Archie nor no Mario-kun or anything), Kirby scales the highest at Low Complex Multiversal, but he's kinda carried by Another Dimension's cosmology and the Master Crown, and there's a lot of chain scaling going on from there.
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u/Everybody_do_da_flop Aug 24 '24
reconsidering that kirby scale
Does it change upwards or downwards? Just asking because people seem to think he's either galaxy level or shitfartversal so you never know
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
I'm a little undecided. It depends on where the Kirby cosmology should scale, since there's a good amount of things pointing to it following the many worlds' interpretation. In a sense that it's an infinite multiverse with Infinite possibilities, that includes the side-games that aren't connected to the main Kirby lore.
The thing is, from my understanding, a cosmology with many worlds' interpretation ranges anywhere from Low Complex Multiversal to High Hyperversal. I don't know what sets them apart.
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u/Everybody_do_da_flop Aug 24 '24
I saw this video a while back and most things make sense on paper individually but i have no clue about dimensional scaling and hyper-outer whatever so it could be just bs
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
Eh... It reminds me a lot of this. The Kirby thread that got me roasted for taking seriously. See anything wrong with it?
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u/Everybody_do_da_flop Aug 24 '24
Its mostly the same images as the video,so every image in there has official information as far as i know,i personally agree with these connections in the lore but i have no clue if it gets kirby to any concrete scale,though to support the argument that the different universes are connected,i would point out that when galacta knight is defeated in rtdl,his glass prision he destroys before the fight doesnt appear in either his stat allies or planet robobot fight,and robobot's is titled "galacta knight returns",so i honestly dont see anything wrong outside not knowing about where that gets the kirbyverse on a powerscale
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
There are some issues with that thread if I'm honest, some of the things he says are legit, such as Another Dimension being beyond time and mathematical dimensions, but as far as I'm aware, those arguments make more sense as Kirby having 5D cosmology rather than him reaching any level near Outer, the Kirby verse is still far from going there.
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u/Maleficent-Crazy5890 #2 Alien X Hater Aug 25 '24
Sonic > Kirby > Mario to me.
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u/_His_Airness Aug 25 '24
Yeah, Sonic is Hyper, Kirby is Multi, and Mario should be Galaxy to Universal
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u/Longjumping-Ebb-9057 Aug 25 '24
Mario downplay is crazy
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u/_His_Airness Aug 25 '24
Give me some feats.
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u/Longjumping-Ebb-9057 Aug 25 '24
Swam from a blackhole in mario party I think and was able to beat super dimentio who in base was stronger than the void which was going to consume all worlds dimensions and timelines even paper mario tanked the void
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u/Notmas Aug 25 '24
Swimming from a black hole isn't that great of a feat, it's incalculable since in a vacuum there's nothing to push off. It's not a high scaling, it's a literally impossible scaling. You can't swim away from anything in space, that's not how space works. At best you can say he's somehow creating his own propultion, maybe he's doing a Saitama and farting his way to safety. In that case, it's still not that impressive of a feat considering he was quite far from the black hole and the gravitational pull drops off exponentially with distance.
As for Dimentio, for one that's not the same Mario. That's Paper Mario, they're not the same person, Paper Mario is a fictional character within the Mario universe. Even if we do for some reason take it into consideration, he required help from all his friends, the Pixls, and all of the Chaos Hearts. It was NOT a base form feat, Bowser explicitly stated that they'd never be able to defeat Dimentio through normal means.
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u/Longjumping-Ebb-9057 Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Its the same mario what are you talking about the creator confirmed is the same mario your objectively wrong and thats what bowser said yet mario still did it and he used the chaos of hearts to only take out his invulnerability and yes even if its not base is still impressive even tanking the void alone is enough stop the downplay sure mario had help from friends but he himself still damaged him
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u/Substantial_Tone_261 Aug 25 '24
Sonic ig, because of how crazy Archie comics are. Mario and Kirby are waaay below that madness range.
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u/kk_slider346 Aug 25 '24
All 3 are super wanky Mario is the most wanky Sonic the least wanky and kirby middle wanky
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u/buzzard2315 Ultimate mid baller Aug 25 '24
Yeah Mario can be only high balled to 4D through paper Mario and I heard scaling for Kirby to be 5D while sonic has comfortable 6D arguments (going by game versions of each)
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u/Notmas Aug 25 '24
All of them are extremely wank, but I've seen more convincing arguments for Sonic being on that level then the other two. I still don't buy it, but using multipliers and statements and shit you can get him pretty high. Even then though, at best he should be high multiversal, saying he's hyper or outer is ridiculous.
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u/fingerlicker694 If Pokemon has no downplayers, I'm dead. Aug 25 '24
Least wanky is Sonic, because saying "Sonic" doesn't specify a sonic, leaving open the possibility that it means Archie Sonic. You still need insane mental gymnastics for Archie Sonic, but hey, it's Hyper-Outer. You already needed insane mental gymnastics just to invent this tier.
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u/Oblivion189 DC Caps At 6D Aug 24 '24
Sonic,All three are wanky but sonic has scaling for hyper if I remember correctly so yeah definitely him.
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
Can you recall what the arguments were? Because my first guess is Solaris upscaling from Maginary World, which is arguably comparable to Dream Depot from Mario Party 5, which is likely High Hyperversal
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u/Oblivion189 DC Caps At 6D Aug 24 '24
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
That reminds me. I forgot to clarify that I was talking about Game Sonic specifically, not Archie Sonic.
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u/Oblivion189 DC Caps At 6D Aug 24 '24
My guy.... Yeah, then I don't see Sonic doing sh!t.
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
...Eh. I can kinda see it applie to Game Sonic. If I remember correctly, Sonic 06 is sorta canon to Archie Sonic. And I vaguely remember some statement about how the Archie and Game canons apparently share a multiverse.
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u/Darkgamer32_ Aug 24 '24
Sonic because someone could say maybe it's archie, even then it would be wanky
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u/_sephylon_ DC Caps At 6D Aug 24 '24
All 3 are beyond insanity but Sonic is slightly less worse I think
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u/_His_Airness Aug 25 '24
Sonic is the only legitimate case for Hyperversal. Mario I'm pretty sure caps at Galaxy (Mario fanboys I don't have much knowledge on him) and Kirby is Overrated asf, he should cap at Multiversal
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 25 '24
I forgot to clarify that I was specifically talking about Game Sonic, not Archie Sonic. Unless you're telling me that you have a case for Hyperversal Game Sonic
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u/_His_Airness Aug 25 '24
Archie Sonic def is Hyperversal. Not outer tho. Don't know shit about Game Sonic all ik is he's much weaker
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u/RetryAgain9 Aug 25 '24
Nah game sk Ci actually scales pretty close to archie sonic in stats, obviously sonic shuffle has imaginary world feats, bur there's also base sonic in secret rings having multiversal feats, and base sonic in forces being able to break out of an infinite dimension, and base sonic in generations being able to move in and repair a dimension that exists outside of space and time.
Then you have super sonic scaling, like one shooting the end, which is a concept, and beating solaris, who is stated to be a super dimensional being who eats dimensions for breakfast.
So idk if any of that actually brings him up to hyperversal, but tbf I think he has a better case than mario or kirby.
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u/Notmas Aug 25 '24
Most of that is taken way out of context, Sonic is strong but he's not THAT strong. He was stated to have ran through the world of the arabian nights until he found a way home, which likely means he found a wizard or something that could help him. It's a world of magic and he's an adventurer, he was probably exploring and asking around until he found some way to return, it's never implied that he did it on his own through raw speed or w/e. Even looking at him escaping Null Space it's made clear that they were simply generating enough energy to open a portal, it's not that they literally ran to the end of an infinite space. In Gens Sonic is able to generate energy through his movement, and that's able to kickstart the restoration of time. It's an incalculable feat, but it's clearly not the insane infinite speed thing that everyone pretends it is.
As for Super Sonic, yeah he's really tough but there's no reason to say he's any higher then multiversal. He beat several multi-universal characters and has gotten stronger since then, but there's no indication that it's gotten several levels of infinity stronger.
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u/RetryAgain9 Aug 25 '24
Most of that is taken way out of context, Sonic is strong but he's not THAT strong. He was stated to have ran through the world of the arabian nights until he found a way home, which likely means he found a wizard or something that could help him. It's a world of magic and he's an adventurer, he was probably exploring and asking around until he found some way to return, it's never implied that he did it on his own through raw speed or w/e
Not the feat I was referring to. He beats the main antagonist, who at that point had destroyed 400 universes and absorbed 100.
Even looking at him escaping Null Space it's made clear that they were simply generating enough energy to open a portal, it's not that they literally ran to the end of an infinite space
What? It's never implied or shown that. Hell, sonics own dialogue suggests the opposite, when he says "nothing can contain the two of us, not even null space" which implies that they brute forced their way out of null space. They've never been shown to be able to create portals with double boost, so I have no idea where you got that from.
In Gens Sonic is able to generate energy through his movement, and that's able to kickstart the restoration of time. It's an incalculable feat, but it's clearly not the insane infinite speed thing that everyone pretends it is.
But he's still able to move in that white void, which at the start of the game exists without time, just fine, in the hub world.
As for Super Sonic, yeah he's really tough but there's no reason to say he's any higher then multiversal. He beat several multi-universal characters and has gotten stronger since then, but there's no indication that it's gotten several levels of infinity stronger.
Yeah I do just wanna say rhat I never meant to imply that I thought he was actually hyperversal, just that out of the chars in the post he had the best case to be made for it.
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u/FightingFutility99 Aug 25 '24
I have game Sonic at low hyper
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 25 '24
May I ask why? Does it have to do with Maginary World?
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u/FightingFutility99 Aug 25 '24
No, the maginary is a single 4D realm in Sonic. The scaling mainly comes from Solaris. Sonics cosmology contains string theory, which is 11 dimensions. Solaris was threatening to destroy all timelines in history. That would include all of these dimensions. Then Sonic goes on to defeat characters like Infinite in his base form, who’s stated to be stronger than Solaris. Then you have the cyberspace realm, which infinitely transcends Sonic’s already existing high complex multiverse. Plus The End is a literal platonic concept
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u/ScrumpusMcDingle The Doom Glazer and Professional Kirby downplayer Aug 25 '24
The only one that even goes past multiversal is Sonic, the other two are massively wanked and just illogical
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u/Mr-Pink-101 Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
All of them and None of them
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u/Early_Kiwi5270 Aug 25 '24
Depends. Who has Kirby eaten, what power-ups does Mario have, are we talking game Sonic or Archie Sonic, does Sonic have the Chaos Emeralds, what forms does Sonic have (Excalibur Sonic, Hyper Sonic, Darkspine Sonic, etc.)? The problem is that there are too many variables
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u/After-Show-3441 Aug 25 '24
Honestly Sonic's the only one I could really believe in for this.
At least when it comes to hyper, not outer that one's a complete wank.
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u/ThePotatoFromIrak Aug 25 '24
Every person who unironically believes Kirby is a powerful god or whatever belongs on the electric chair 😭
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u/element-redshaw Aug 25 '24
Kirby and sonic have been shown beating characters stated to threaten universes (Solaris for sonic in sonic 06 and the final boss in kirby star allies)
Mario isn’t shit, one of his biggest feats people like to bring up isn’t even true, he didn’t survive the black hole at the end of galaxy rosealina saved him, big difference.
So if I had to choose one that’s the least wanked it’s definitely sonic because I feel like he has more grounds to stand on
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Mario has beaten at least 2 multiversal characters in Dream Team in the form of Dark Stone Antasma (before you say he was amped by Dreamy Luigi, there are many moments in the fight where Antasma takes Luigi away and you have to free him) and Dreamy Bowser.
There's also that extremely weird thing about Mario being a Star Child, someone who was born with the innate power of a star that is apparently powerful enough to "conquer the universe" (kinda vague tbh), and we learn this in a Yoshi's Island game.
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u/HeavenlyRainbowLotus Goku and Superman Enjoyer Aug 25 '24
I can get Sonic being that level but the Mario and Kirby ones feel finicky
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Kirby imo, if we're only counting the GAME versions of each, but all 3 are extreme wank.
Kirby scales the highest with Low Complex Multiversal being his highest point because of Another Dimension and the Master Crown. Sonic is Multiversal at best thanks to Super Sonic and the many feats from games like Sonic 2006 or Rush Adventure. Mario is around Universal-Multiversal counting Yoshi's Island DS, Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy 1-2, and Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.
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u/StarWorldo GOATku enjoyer Aug 25 '24
Sonic, the other two just aren't even close. At least sonic has ways of arguing such wank
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u/Jim_naine Aug 25 '24
Didn't Mario survive the entire galaxy collapsing onto itself during the events of Super Mario Galaxy?
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u/Jim_naine Aug 25 '24
This is how I see it
Kirby > Mario (without the Super Star, Star Spirits, or the White Tanooki/Cat Suit) > "Game" Sonic (without any Super forms)
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u/TheOneWhoThrowsShit Mid Level Scaler Aug 25 '24
Sonic due to Archie sonic being scaled to similar levels
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u/hoodgothx FINLAND Aug 25 '24
I don’t really give a shit about any of these characters (except for Mario, nostalgia and all that), but if I was some dumbass I’d say sonic since you can wank his speed. Just he outruns time, the multiverse and hell even his own fiction
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u/thehsitoryguy Local Doctor Who fan Aug 25 '24
Probably Sonic has the least wanky argument for Hyper (Even tho its still ungodly wank)
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 25 '24
Does it have to do with Maginary World? Because I can see it being comparable to Dream Depot from Mario Party 5, which is likely a High Hyperversal structure since it not only houses a potentially infinite amount of universe sized dreams, but characters can have dreams inside of dreams, just like in Inception
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u/MutedBoard2109 Aug 25 '24
Depends what you count as feats kirby is near indestructible and defeats gods in his sleep literally. One of the fastest modes of travel in existence is at his nubs, and he can steal the power of anything that goes into the abyss inside his body
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u/WindOk7901 Aug 25 '24
Unless I’m proved wrong in the future, all of them are equally as wanky, but I guess Sonic is closer cause he scales the highest between the 3?
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u/MopManXD69420 Professional Calc Stacker Aug 24 '24
Definitely the Sonic one
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
I've only seen arguments for the Sonic verse getting to 6D at most. How does Super Sonic get to Hyper to Outer? Does it have to do with Maginary World
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u/MopManXD69420 Professional Calc Stacker Aug 24 '24
Nope. It's just to do with the others scaling waaay lower :P
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u/drblimp0909 Aug 25 '24
Tbh outer seems somewhat fair for sonic if we include things like hyper sonic
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Hyper Sonic is featless bro.
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u/drblimp0909 Aug 25 '24
Not fully featless he has the special effect of giving people seizures
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u/MokouIsBest2hu 1# Heavy Lobster glazer Aug 25 '24
Ok, you have a point, Hyper Sonic is able to no-diff everyone with Epilepsy.
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u/FuzzyPickles67 Aug 25 '24
To be honest Game Sonic has little to no feats that gets him even remotely close to outer
Kirby usually is power scaled by people who never touched a Kirby game
And most Mario fans have stated multiple times that Mario has POTENTIAL to be outer but right now is chilling at low multiversal(Stop downplaying my red boi)
So in conclusion All three are at Best chilling in Uni to multi and I'm sick of everyone underestimating Mario
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u/SUPREME7777777 Sonic scaler and Hot Takes guy.🔥🔥🔥 Aug 24 '24
None of them is a wank, all are Fax.
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
What are the best arguments you've seen for all 3? Because I assume that they all have to do with dimensional tiering.
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u/SUPREME7777777 Sonic scaler and Hot Takes guy.🔥🔥🔥 Aug 24 '24
I think Sonic has way too many arguments for Outer imo.
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u/mr-rando423 Aug 24 '24
For the time being, Can you just explain the one that's the easiest to explain? Does it have to do with Maginary World?
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u/SUPREME7777777 Sonic scaler and Hot Takes guy.🔥🔥🔥 Aug 24 '24
What's common between them is the SSBU argument where they defeat Master Hand which sees the cosmology/World Of Light as Fiction which has concepts of space and time.
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u/Wuraumefan26 I glaze Wuraume religiously :) Aug 24 '24
Sonic, I doubt it (still a Goku victim) but it's possible :)
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u/CartoonistOk1213 Aug 26 '24
I can't say for Sonic, but I think Kirby is a bit more reasonable than Mario, considering there are more claims that other villains can create separate dimensions to my knowledge, though I don't use Dimensional Tiering and therefore the Hyperversal term as a whole.
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