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u/Complex_Estate8289 High Level Scaler Aug 25 '24
How strong even is Wukong from the game?
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u/AdLegitimate1637 Aug 25 '24
I dont know the games plot super well yet but the early parts imply that JTTW happened prior to when the game starts and can probably be used for scaling unless certain things are contradicted
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u/Complex_Estate8289 High Level Scaler Aug 25 '24
If that’s the only basis for Wukong winning then it’s kind of a bad argument, as that is like trying to scale Thor from god of war to Thor from marvel comics, or Zeus from god of war to Zeus from DC. They aren’t the same media just different stories based on the same mythological figure
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u/the_last_mlg Homeowthstuck dude Aug 25 '24
i think that's more like comparing those characters to their mythology counterparts (which may make them weaker or stronger depending on how you see them lol), since this argument is scaling wukong to his novel self and all
another example is scaling record of ragnarok shiva to the POWERHOUSE that is his hindu self
the mcu and dc arguments would fit if this was scaling wukong to fucking goku lmao
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u/AdLegitimate1637 Aug 25 '24
again I dont know if it ends up contradicting parts of jttw later, but the early part I have seen so far quite literally features Erlang and Wukong shit talking each other in regards to the fight they had during JTTW, so unless I end up seeing otherwise idk why we would assume the events of JTTW then did not happen
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u/Complex_Estate8289 High Level Scaler Aug 25 '24
idk why we would assume the events of JTTW then did not happen
The point I’m making is that they aren’t the same media, just based on the same characters and story. This would be like saying Ragnarok from god of war is the same as Ragnarok from the mcu movie
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u/AdLegitimate1637 Aug 25 '24
I dont feel like that comparison works, in Black Myth up to where I was they flat out reference events that happen in JTTW, meaning that by and large the plot of JTTW probably should apply here, there can be changes I havent seen yet and if so said amendments can be made for his scaling but the plotline of the novel happening in the past is wholly different from two different series interpreting the details of an event completely different from each other. Ragnarok in MCU and GoW can't really be compared at all beyond superficial things like the name or that its a war involving Asgard, but in the case for Black Myth Wukong we know for example that specific fights like Erlang vs Wukong that happen in JTTW are also part of the same timeline Black Myth Wukong is in
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u/Raven776 Aug 25 '24
We can assume that the events of JTTW happen... But we can't assume that it's word for word. Like it was said above, that's like comparing Thor from Marvel to Thor from GOW because they talked about and referenced the same things.
While the game pulls from the same source, it has clearly altered Wukong to be a much different character. The game Wukong is not nearly as abstractly powerful as JTTW Wukong. The same 'things' could have happened to a certain extent, but his deification is severely reduced. Unless the game explains that away in some way, you can't assume that it's word for word JTTW.
Yes JTTW Wukong ruins Kratos.
Video game Wukong is seemingly a much more reasonable fight.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
Wukong from the game is supposed to be his version after finishing the journey to the west and became a buddha
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u/ErenYeager600 Aug 25 '24
If that’s the case why does he still have the diadem that inhibits his power
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u/ReadySource3242 Aug 26 '24
Buddha faked him out so Sun Wukong was like “Big Brain time” and then destroyed his body and then had another monkey go through a bunch of trials and strengthen himself so he could reincarnate into that body in his full power without the band.
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u/badlesscash Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
But the thing is, we dunno if this wukong is directly from jttw or an adaptation of the wukong from jttw.
The former gets lore scalings, the latter gets whatever in the game scalings. Adaptation =/= the genuine article.
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u/shaquilleoatmeat Scaler Of Many Aug 25 '24
Sun Wukong molests
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u/pain_ofakatsuki Whats that? I cant hear you while you're sucking my Aug 25 '24
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u/itownshend17 Goatku solos DC Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Wukong stomps solely if you use his scaling from Journey to the West and say his game version is just as strong, which is honestly kind of a leap in logic ngl. Otherwise Kratos stomps going by gameplay, onscreen feats or by in game lore, again unless you use JTTW lore for game Wukong despite him only being an adaptation of that version of Wukong, in the same way GOW Thor doesnt have the same level of power or scaling as Norse mythology Thor cause he is only an adaptation of him and not the exact same guy, same deal with Jojo Jesus not being on the same level of power as the Bible Jesus even though he is obviously based on him.
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u/Edgeking2 Aug 25 '24
Technically speaking from my understanding, there is two Wukongs in the game, the one from Journey to the west and a second one.
The second one should be the one being scaled but technically I still think he clears Kratos from what I’ve heard.
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u/itownshend17 Goatku solos DC Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
But again, even the original game Wukong shouldnt really get scaling from his Journey to the west self since he is only an adaptation of him, in the same way MCU Thor is not the same as mythology Thor or ROR Shiva isnt the same as mythology Shiva.
The Destined One (aka the stone monkey you play as during most of the game) even if he scales to Wukong due to fighting him later in the game, doesnt scale to JTTW Wukong neither as both of the Wukongs from the game are just adaptations of him, and to assume they are just as strong is illogical.
Game Wukong may have lived the events of Journey to the west, but he lived an adaptation of the original events of them and not the exact same events, so again Game Wukong isnt anywhere near as strong as mythological Wukong.
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u/badlesscash Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
The 2nd 1 is the nameless monkey that we’re playing as. Depends on the endings, either he failed & trapped in the sealed rock like wukong (waiting for the next monkey to either repeat the cycle or succeed) or he successfully inherited wukong’s name & powers.
To avoid confusion, you can call him the destined 1 since that’s what he’s labeled as before he beat wukong’s corpse.
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u/Helicoptamus Aug 26 '24
I thought Wukong became a Buddha? Why does he have a corpse? Do Buddha’s have corpses? Can they have corpses?
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u/badlesscash Aug 26 '24
From very the start of the game, the story narrator said that wukong abandoned the celestial court cos he just wanna go back to his mountain & live among his subjects, whether or not that means he gave up his title is up to interpretation (if you consider being a buddha means you’re part of the celestial court).
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u/Helicoptamus Aug 26 '24
This game is not canon to me :(
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u/badlesscash Aug 26 '24
Most games are just adaptations, unless the devs confirmed it to be canon to the novel otherwise.
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u/SevenForWinning Steven SMT solos Aug 26 '24
Something about someone with a nino pfp and someone with an olivia pfp arguing is just peak
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u/Edgeking2 Aug 26 '24
I don't we are arguing, I'm just saying if I think what I've heard is true, game Wukong may win.
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u/Responsible_Bit1089 Aug 25 '24
Norse mythology Thor scales way below GoW Thor. In Norse myth Thor couldn't break a mountain.
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u/itownshend17 Goatku solos DC Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Thats not the point though, the point is that they are 2 different versions of the character, imagine if I said Shiva from Record of Ragnarok is omnipotent and boundless cause Hindu mythology Shiva is that strong, that makes no sense cause they are 2 different versions of the character, ROR Shiva only being an adaptation of Hindu mythology Shiva and so doesnt scale to the same levels of power as him.
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u/wilkisno1 Aug 26 '24
Pretty sure he can in the Utgard-Loki (forgive my spelling) tale in the prose Edda he creates square valleys with every swing of his hammer at one point
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u/TheMightyHovercat #1 Bleach Glazer Aug 25 '24
Wukong from what I've heard, both gameplay-wise and lore-wise.
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u/Hitei00 Aug 25 '24
In mythology Sun Wukong is literally the most powerful being in existence outside pretty much just Buddha and the entire inciting incident of the story is Buddha overpowering him and strongarming him into becoming a better person.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
Nope he's not even close lol any high tier deities from Heaven cook Sun Wukong no-low diff Jade Emperor or the three pure one are just as strong or even stronger than Buddha and the Bodhisattvas. I'm Vietnamese and have read both the original novel and watched the 1986 adaptation hundreds of times, throughout the entire Journey to the West there are many instances where Wukong meets many Yaoguai ( monsters ) that can fight on par with him for days or just outright demolish him, like the Bull Demon King, Red Boy, Scorpion demon, Golden falcon demon, Erlang Shen... And always need to go ask for help. I love Wukong to death but stop glazing him, even his Victorious Buddha version is featless
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u/Agile-Excitement-863 u/desolatehomosapien0 Aug 25 '24
Jade emperor was shitting his pants 💀he ain’t beating sun wukong especially by the time he becomes a buddah.
Nobody cares if you’re Vietnamese. It’s like saying you’re Thai and therefore have a higher understanding of Japanese manga.
Also like 99% of the time sun wukong could body all of his opponents if tang Shen didn’t actively inhibit his ability to do so.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
You bet you got all your knowledge about Sun Wukong and how OP he is from those YouTube videos about how he have several types of immortality and can turn into anyone...etc or at best from some kinds of badly translated English version of the Journey to the west novel. If you know the story enough Sun Wukong has almost die several times on the journey by the Golden Wind Great sage blind his eyes with the sands, Red Boy burn him to death with his fire and he needed Zhu Baije to resuscitate him or when Garuda easily catch up with his flying nimbus speed and demolish him. The only iteration of Jade Emperor who is scared of Sun Wukong was the 1986 adaptation and maybe some manhua, games later on, where he hid under the table, this wasn't mentioned anywhere in the original novel. Even the Buddha himself when he helped trap Sun Wukong under the mountain, he still showed immense respect to Jade Emperor as a superior. In real taoism mythology Jade Emperor has been cultivating for thousands of lifetime, which last a few millions years, while even Buddha himself only got a few thousands years and Wukong is much less. There are 70+ Buddhas and Wukong with his master are just one of them at the end of JTTW, not to mention each Buddha also have different level of enlightenment and power.
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u/Agile-Excitement-863 u/desolatehomosapien0 Aug 25 '24
I read the original Chinese version lmfao.
The buddah transcends the jade emperor. Also notice the jade emperor never even tried to fight sun wukong.
How tf can sun wukong almost die? He survived laozis furnace and erased his name from the book of death and ate so many immortality granting things in heaven it’s ridiculous. None of the things you said actually put him in real danger of dying.
Plus the ENTIRE court of heaven went to the buddah to ask him to deal with wukong. This includes the jade emperor.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
Nope bruh the reason the Jade Emperor didn't fight Wukong himself cause to him Wukong is nothing but a pawn on a chess piece, along with Wukong's master and his brothers on the JTTW. If he saw Wukong as a serious threat like you said then the three pure ones ( basically the three strongest deities in Taoism and are the students of the being who created the entire universe from nothing)and him would have taken action into their own hands instead of sending his nephew ( Erlang Shen ). Wukong got put inside the furnace but in the novel it was mentioned that he managed to find a corner where the fire can't touch him directly, if he was invincible like you said Ox king's son ( Red Boy ) wouldn't have almost kill him with the same fire and smoke. Even Zhu Baije thought Wukong was dead at first and had to use one of his 36 spells to revive him. About who's stronger between Buddha and Jade Emperor, they're both seen as the patriarchs of their respective pantheon/religion which are taoism and Buddhism so their power system and cultivation process are completely different and incomparable in the first place, JTTW is basically a crossover because China has begun teaching Buddhism from India at that time. However both Buddha and Jade Emperor show mutual respect to each other with Buddha even call Jade Emperor "my Lord" and call himself "a monk" in front of him.
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u/Agile-Excitement-863 u/desolatehomosapien0 Aug 25 '24
Headcanon. Never stated the jade emperor thought of sun wukong as a pawn.
More headcanon. He did not find a safe corner nor does it make sense that some godly furnace used to make immortality pills has a random corner that doesn’t heat up.
Doesn’t matter lol jade emperor went to the BUDDAH to have him deal with sun wukong which means he couldn’t do it himself.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
If you're the supreme king who ruless over hell, heaven and earth with thousands of capable gods and deities under your rule would you need to go out and take care of some stone monkey yourself when you can ask your subordinates to do that ? That's why you can't never be a king but only a pawn. Jade Emperor also invited Buddha over because he originally planned to do that anyway, Heaven was about to hold a big party with immortality peaches with the presence of Gods and Buddhas from all over the world before Wukong ruined it all and caused the entire ordeal. Right after Wukong was banished everything returned to normal immediately and they celebrated the party like nothing happened.
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u/Agile-Excitement-863 u/desolatehomosapien0 Aug 25 '24
The buddah isn’t his subordinate though lol. He’s equal and arguably above the jade emperor. And if the jade emperor is so strong it shouldn’t take any effort for him to erase sun wukong.
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u/Impressive-Koala4742 Aug 25 '24
Still also doesn't erase the fact that there are so many nameless Yaoguais on the JTTW that can fight toe to toe with Wukong or just outright beat him either with their strength or magical items, if he is so strong he wouldn't have need to asked the Buddha and Heaven ( For example with Red Boy, Ox king, Garuda, Scorpion lady demon, black bear demon... ) for help so many times and would have just singlehandedly protected his master to India.
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u/_LadyAveline_ Madoka glazer (not that she needs it) Aug 25 '24
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u/Some_ArabGuy My enlightened opinion🔥 > Your foolish, garbage opinion🧢 Aug 25 '24
Wukong negs the verse
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u/will4wh Aug 25 '24
Is this the game version in particular or just Sun Wukong in general? Because if it the latter then Wukong stomps
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u/AtomicSekiro_ Aug 26 '24
Hey remember how Kratos was struggling with Baldur? And needed Atreus’ help to beat him??
Now imagine a STRONGER Baldur, with several more layers of immortality stacked onto him which can’t be turned off. That’s Wukong.
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Aug 25 '24
That's absolutely hilarious gang 😐 you got everyone laughing 😐 very funny indeed 😐
(Wukong would rock ktatos's shit so bad 💀🙏)
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u/Professional-Act-858 Kingiri Solos Aug 25 '24
Lore: Wukong negs. Games: it's closer but still Wukong.
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u/ThunderG0d2467 Aug 26 '24
Is the black myth game point for point based on the JTTW? Because if it is and it includes his feats FROM JTTW then Wukong stomps the verse with a clone
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u/Key-Ebb-8306 Aug 26 '24
Lorewise Wukong, Kratos might win agaisnt the destined one in the game but stands.no chance against the heaven's equal
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u/Immediate_Data3842 Aug 26 '24
I think kratos will find some of jokes wukong tell funny, but mostly annoying the spartan
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u/TyS22235 All time DMC glazer Aug 25 '24
I can't believe this is even a debate. Anyone who has seen Wukong's feats and abilities should know he demolishes Kratos easily
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u/_ZAK_Smert Aug 25 '24
I genuinely haven't seen any... I saw trailer years ago and haven't seen any Black Myth gameplay footage since then. I literally have no idea about who would win
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u/kakiu000 Aug 25 '24
Wukong in gameplay is still shitstomping Kratos since he can tank mountain level attack from Erlang and is about equal or slightly stronger than him.
And all the JTTW stuffs also happened in the game as shown by the ending cinematic, which makes the in-game Wukong tye same as his mythology version, so he also stomp lorewise
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Aug 25 '24
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u/AdLegitimate1637 Aug 25 '24
Kratos aint winning the lorescaling war either tbh, Wukong is stupidly OP
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u/BitesTheDust55 Aug 25 '24
Wukong shilldiffs
Seriously the shilling for Black Myth has surpassed anything I've seen in years. I am DEFINITELY waiting to pirate that shit. Kratos is wanked but not shilled nearly as hard.
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