r/PowerScaling • u/AltDust7 • 2d ago
What in the actual fuck? Say hello to Multiversal Sans š. Games
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u/SigmaVersal99 1d ago
Thats hilarious.
"How strong is that character?"
"Oh he is somewhere between wall level and multiversal."
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u/TheOneWhoSucks 1d ago
That's like a time when I wanted to know the heart beat of a spider and Google told me "oh, it's around 3 to 125 bpm"
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u/QuiteTheShyGirl 1d ago
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u/TheOneWhoSucks 1d ago
Yeah that. That's like saying "the average lifespan of a creature is in the range of one month to 9 decades"
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u/element-redshaw 1d ago
funny thing is i've seen weirder scaling in between, there's a character who's scaling ranges from sub human level to multiversal
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u/ThePowerfulWIll 1d ago edited 1d ago
Can someone actually explain to me how you scale anything in undertale? The combat is depicted so abtractly, how would you know if its a magic death match, or just monsters clumisly stubbling arround trying to grab a kid like the bad guys in a. 90s kids movie?
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mainly statements and stuff. We know basically no monster can be mountain level (they're trapped in a mountain so.....) (ignore the mountain level stuff. I misremembered the lore :(. However I still stand by basically no one in Undertale [except for the ones I'm gonna mention] being even close to mountain level so I still use that as the basis.)
The only one who has the potential to be mountain level is Undyne The Undying since that isn't a natural form, we don't know if she could destroy Mt ebott by herself, however, since her stats suggest that she is stronger than Omega Flowey physically, she almost most definately can.
Outside of her: Omega Flowey, Genocide Chara, both Genocide and Pacifist Frisk, and Asriel the god of hyperdeath are 100% above mountain level. (Omega Flowey can literally drop nukes, Genocide Chara has destroyed the entire timeline/universe, Genocide Frisk is somewhat relative to Genocide Chara, Asriel states he is capable of resetting all of time itself, and Pacifist Frisk can tank multiple different hits from Asriel.
Hope this helps.
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u/Ornery_Macaroon2027 1d ago
being able to reset time is a hax it doesnt scale AP, so frisk taking hits from asriel doesnāt scale their durability.
itās debatable if omega floweys bombs count as legit nukes
genocide chara might be uni idk, i think thereās arguments to be made that itās ambiguous though
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
being able to reset time is a hax it doesnt scale AP, so frisk taking hits from asriel doesnāt scale their durability.
That's fair. So pacifist Frisk isn't guaranteed above mountain level, unless you think they're a hax merchant in which their ability to reset/load could put them above it, but that's iffy.
genocide chara might be uni idk, i think thereās arguments to be made that itās ambiguous thou
This just straight up isn't. In what way is destroying the entire timeline/universe not universal?????
itās debatable if omega floweys bombs count as legit nukes
If you don't wanna use that then same as pacifist Frisk.
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u/Ornery_Macaroon2027 1d ago
having timeline reversion hax isnāt really that strong of a hax ngl.
because we donāt know how large the undertale universe is. we could give it the benefit of the doubt and say itās the same size of our own universe but thatās not a guarantee. i think you can at least argue itās solar system level because as far as i remember thereās a sunset in the pacifist ending (might be wrong).
itās also genuinely possible itās a hax. she could have just deleted the save file thru hax or whatever, since we know chara and frisk canonically have a way to interact with the universe in that regard
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
having timeline reversion hax isnāt really that strong of a hax ngl.
It's is a uni level hax. You're affecting the entire universe because of it. Tf u mean????
because we donāt know how large the undertale universe is.
The surface world is shown to be basically identical except humans had magic at one point in time. It'd make no sense for the universe to be a different size to our universe.
as far as i remember thereās a sunset in the pacifist ending (might be wrong).
You're correct.
also genuinely possible itās a hax. she could have just deleted the save file thru hax or whatever, since we know chara and frisk canonically have a way to interact with the universe in that regard
They slashed and a bunch of 9's appeared, showing they genuinely did so much damage the entire universe got destroyed and all that's left was a void. I don't understand the confusion regarding this feat.
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u/Ornery_Macaroon2027 1d ago
i meant you canāt extrapolate it to physicals.
we barely have seen the surface world. itās possible like i said but not guaranteed. i would honestly give it the benefit of the doubt in most cases, though.
that would make it at least solar system level.
itās similarly possible that the 9999 was just the damage done to the save file through hax. these characters can reset and break timelines through determination, not necessarily physical strength. the question remains on how that slash interacts with people rather than an undertale save file.
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u/Gru-some 1d ago
Isnāt it a rule that if you donāt see it on screen and its not contradictory to the lore, that the rest of the universe is roughly the same as ours?
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u/Apollosyk 1d ago
I dotn argue that sans is multiversal but the mounten level is incorrect considering its a barrier that traps them
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u/Sea_Strain_6881 3rd biggest boros glazer 1d ago
"They're trapped under a mountain so....." isn't it cause they're sealed with magic?
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
Yes. I misremembered it and thought it was that you could pass through it at the entrance but not the exit when in actuality it's you can enter but not exit.
But not many have shown anything even slightly close to mountain level so ima still use mountain level as a basis.
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u/bowser-us 1d ago
There are some small feats, though. Undyne and Frisk survived oven explosion (the explosion set the entire room on fire). Frisk is okay after the elevator collapsed. Undyne can break a bridge and a piano. Mettaton punched a hole in a wall. And there are probably more
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u/Gru-some 1d ago
since her stans suggest that she is stronger than Omega Flowey physically
Wait huh? Where is this said
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
Granted, this is a very controversial way of doing this, but in the files the stats for Undyne the Undying are higher than Omega Flowey's stats, along with having over double his HP (10k for OF, 23k for UTU). The reason I'm using this way is because nowhere in the game does it mention Omega Floweys stats.
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u/Gru-some 1d ago
If this scale is valid, daamn Undyne is strong.
Also I understand why scaling using game file numbers is controversial, but tbh Undertaleās whole 4th wall breaking and meta-narrative make it weird to scale, and besides there were hidden messages in the files anyway (a1b2c3.ogg for example, and the weird shit in Deltarune too) so whoās to say the stats in the game files ARENāT canon
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
I think it mainly becomes an issue when you compare ingame stats (like Asriel's inf ATK and DEF) with game file stats.
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u/Gru-some 1d ago
True. Iād say ingame displayed stats are the real canon ones, or at the very least should take precedent over game files
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u/raddoubleoh 1d ago
Small correction: they are sealed under a mountain. That's what the children sacrifice was for: maintaining the magic trapping them there. They could absolutely be above mountain.
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u/prodigiouspandaman 1d ago
I think their trapped due to some sort of seal by the humans as that was the main reason they needed the seven human souls as while still being under the mountain they couldāve had someone like Undine just climb up the way Frisk and the other humans fall in. Hell even Flowey could probably just travel up to surface like does throughout the underground
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 1d ago
The reason they're trapped is because people can enter the barrier, but can't exit.
Travelling up is impossible.
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u/prodigiouspandaman 1d ago
Yeah thatās what I mean the monsters themselves arenāt trapped because their below mountain level itās because external factors they canāt leave
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u/SnooCompliments9098 1d ago
That's the neat part, you don't.
Not only is the combat abstract, but monsters take more damage depending on how much someone wants to hurt them, and said person takes less damage depending on their willingness to hurt people.
So good luck powerscaling that. Doesn't help that in game stats are unreliable since you literally ask the monsters what their stats are, and they don't have to give you their actual stats, like Glyde just says his stats are high. Which also calls into question asriel's infinite stats, I feel like the kid who calls themselves the 'Absolute God of Hyperdeath' might be lying about his stats a bit.
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u/Thebigass_spartan town level Jotaro 1d ago
Most of Undertale isnāt that strong, only Chara, Omega Flowey and Asriel actually scale that high. Chara destroyed the entire universe in one attack at the end of the genocide route and Asriel and Omega Flowey were messing with the save files, which in Undertale count as separate timelines.
Iām guessing they scaled Sans that high by misunderstanding his role in the story. In Undertale some characters are aware of the save files and the restarts, and only a small majority of them can actively manipulate them (Chara, Flowey/Asriel, the player/Frisk). Characters like Sans and Asgore on the other hand are aware of the save file resets but canāt internet with them (Sans is aware of every time heās defeated you and the amount of times youāve reset. Same goes for Asgore as when you tell him that heās killed you already, he nods in agreement, hinting at the fact heās aware of the resets).
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u/bowser-us 1d ago
look closer. you can find feats. Undyne and Frisk survived oven explosion (the explosion set the whole room on fire). Frisk is okay after the elevator collapse. Undyne can break the bridge and the piano. Mettaton punched through the wall. And there are probably more
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u/Axorandom- 1d ago
Magic is confirmed to (at least somewhat) be a good representation of what it displays (for example, Torielās Fire is real fire and Papyrus physically stores his bones as bones). You can then also scale the size/scale of a magic attack by comparing it to the soul, which has a size that can be found by comparing it to Frisk as it blinks at the start of battle. Thats how you can calculate in battle feats, but there are also out of battle feats such as Frisk and Undyne surviving Undyneās oven exploding during the Undyne date and the Ice Wolf throwing ice, just to name a few.
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u/GoogleUserAccount1 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can smell the chain-scaling, mirror twisting, nonsense from here.
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u/Thebigass_spartan town level Jotaro 1d ago
I donāt think itās chain scaling, just misinterpreting what Sans said about the timelines.
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u/501stAppo1 1d ago
Absolute peak
Anyways, this is wild lol, but not really uncommon compared to all the shit I've seen.
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u/Ghosts_lord 1d ago
i saw a page with him having immeasurable speed
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u/AltDust7 1d ago
Send this to him:
Because how tf š
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u/Ganon_K 1d ago
He can teleport/stop time, but other then that, nah
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u/Xx-Shard-xX 1d ago
that's not speed though š the fuck?
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u/prodigiouspandaman 1d ago
Well speed is irrelevant if you can move at instantaneous speed as you technically never start accelerating at any point
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u/TDoggy-Dog 1d ago
Iām always dubious of Sans scaling. A lot of his abilities arenāt supposed to be direct feats, but actually him using in-universe meta knowledge of how the game works. Same as Gerson in the Genocide route knowing you canāt attack shopkeeps.
So would it all full under hax? Is him dodging an attack actually a feat of speed, or him refusing to fight fairly? His dialogue implies the latter, but there are times heāll move out of battle and seemingly teleport.
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u/Bluelantern9 1d ago
Sans is wall level, gets soloed by a US Marine with an M-16 and six mags, as any human soldier with any more then one kill already is superior to the entirety of the monster population two times over. Eren Yeager in human from season 1 form kicks his ass and uses the dust to salt that bland ass food.
I will downplay Sans till the day I die.
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u/Inevitable_Ad_7236 1d ago
Once I found out damage and health scales with malice, I knew from the on that tantrumming toddler wipes their verse
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u/Professional_Mud_164 Final Fantasy Scaler šāļø 22h ago edited 22h ago
https://i.redd.it/hrm9vtrq6uqd1.gif
Multiverse Level Sans is utter insanity. Apparently, the creator of this profile says that he gets to 2-A via KR but I donāt buy it. Doesnāt UT cap out at uni+? And isnt KR just a potent durability negating poison affect that scales to how evil its victim is?
this should rlly be posted on characterrant lol, theyāll eat this shit up. never let bro in the kitchen again lmfao. šš
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u/AltDust7 20h ago
Bruh I don't even know powerscaling the fuck you saying š.
The fuck's a UT cap and 2-A š
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u/Professional_Mud_164 Final Fantasy Scaler šāļø 20h ago edited 19h ago
my bad, bro. 2-A is the tier for multiverse level+, which is where the creator of that Sans character profile claims Sans is at with KR, lol
UT is short for Undertale and when I say that verse caps out at universal+, I mean that it reaches that level maximum because iirc, Chara literally erases the timeline/universe at the end of the no-mercy run or something like that.
only a select few in the verse reaches that level, such as God of Hyperdeath Asriel, and Pacifist/Genocide Frisk. But Sans has absolutely no business reaching that level.
Sorry for not clarifying.
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u/AltDust7 13h ago
Thanks bro š.
But damn what's up with the glazing these days š
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u/Professional_Mud_164 Final Fantasy Scaler šāļø 8h ago edited 8h ago
Not sure. If you wanna know whatās up with the wank on this subreddit tho, I believe It has to do with the tiering system that this subreddit uses. see, this subreddit uses the Character Stats and Profiles tiering system (CSAP for short) because the tiering is generally better and itās specifications are much more clear. Itās also where that sans profile is from.
obviously, we donāt use character profiles, we just tier characters ourselves and we use the tiering system since itās in the rules and because itās generally better. The main reason why you see outerversal level (tier 1-A) on this sub a lot is likely because CSAPās qualifications for that tier is hella lenient as opposed to the tiering system on Vs. Battles Wiki (VSBW). for instance, Final Fantasy as a verse can get to outerversal level using CSAP but if you used any other tiering system, that verseās cosmology gets to 8-9D, which qualifies for complex multiversal level, which I believe is much more fair.
see what I mean? also, this sub values feats and statements equally. imo, the only time an authorās statement shouldnāt be used is if it contradicts the statement of another author. Users of this subreddit share this same sentiment.
Also, also, dimensional tiering is stupid, but I use it because everyone does. I guess that makes me a bit of a hypocrite, huh? š¤£
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u/Imreallynotfunny442 1d ago
So he's anywhere between small city block to the entire fucking extended multiverse
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u/Deadlock-33 Scales around 4 glazes out of 5 wanks 1d ago
This is a csap profile my guy what do you expect
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u/Traditional-Gene-108 1d ago
City block is already wanked at best he is small building but likely wall and im not saying it because I hate sans far from it but he is the literal weakest enemy the only enemy that is weaker than him is an obscure enemy you can obtain by doing a certain interaction with him and it's literal ice no like he spawns when you take the cap out of icecap and icecap is wall level how is sans even city block if frisk does not even figth omega flowey in genocide šš
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u/despacito9001 1d ago
i'm assuming this is either going off of the various timelines or the fanmade sanses
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u/NotTheFirstVexizz 3h ago edited 3h ago
This is definitely coming from chainscaling and not understanding what hax are. And I barely understand power scaling but still know that much. Basically, the best argument you could say for Undertale is that itās Universal to possibly Multiversal.
Chara at the end of Genocide physically hits and destroys every aspect of the game in one blow, implied to have erased every single timeline that comes from every reset the player has made. Then Chara remains alive after this and has the ability to recreate the game. Frisk can survive in a fight against an Asriel who has 7 souls and thus complete control of the game and every timeline and universe, but itās 100% clear that Asriel is intentionally holding back to toy with you. The only actual feats that come from that fight is a statement that one of the attacks Asriel uses devours every currently existing timeline, and Frisk is guaranteed to survive that attack and can dodge it. Sans apparently being Multiversal must come from the fact he can deal damage to and kill the player, but the problem with this is that heās directly attacking the soul and has no actual feats for destroying anything physical.
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u/NightEnd111 1d ago
Well, it just simple. For first, in Undertale canonically infinite amount timelines, with 1 timeline equal 1 universe. About Mountain level I agree, but others is cap. Omega Flowey, Chara, Asriel, and Pacifist Frisk is confirmed multiversal. For Omega Flowey it simple. He's literally created timeline just to fight with us, and pretty much created many others while killing us. That would be AT LEAST uni+ level. Chara, on the other hand, is Multiversal+ level.They casually destroyed all that infinite amount of timelines in one hit, which would make her hit Multiversal. Asriel is canonically infinite amount times stronger than Chara. That confirmed by his stats, that infinite. Chara use 9999999999....999 amount damage to destroy multiversal structure, so as logic inf>>>9999999... 999 we have MUCH higher than Multiversal level. Frisk, who's able to even live in his presence, not to mention other staff they can do, also Multiversal. Also, they have speed on immeasurable, since they literally escaped from attack that literally consumed timeline (Hypergoner). Even if Asriel ain't really WANT to kill her, still ain't changing fact of her being on multiversal.
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u/NightEnd111 1d ago
Also, many people scale Sans to genocidal Frisk, that why he's multiversal. And about wall level also fair, since he DID die in one hit. To be fair, he DID give them hard time to the point that Chara was need to break game rules to win
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