Missouri executes Marcellus Williams despite prosecutors’ push to overturn conviction

[u/Mentirosa]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/24/missouri-executes-marcellus-williams

[u/Peach__Pixie]

In August, Williams and prosecutors reached an agreement to halt his execution: he would plead no contest to first-degree murder in exchange for a new sentence of life without parole. His lawyers said the agreement was not an admission of guilt, and that it was meant to save his life while he pursued new evidence to prove his innocence. A judge signed off on the agreement, as did the victim’s family, but the attorney general challenged it, and the state supreme court blocked it.

Even the victim's family members did not want to see this man executed. The prosecutors did not want to see this man executed. This man was failed by the courts and an Attorney General whose actions are heinous.

[u/lokarlalingran → u/Peach__Pixie]

Failed is putting it lightly. He was murdered.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/lokarlalingran]

And guess what? It's gonna happen again in Texas next month.

[u/informedinformer → u/Dahhhkness]

Nothing new for Texas. https://innocenceproject.org/cameron-todd-willingham-wrongfully-convicted-and-executed-in-texas/

[u/KhaoticMess → u/informedinformer]

This is the case that finally convinced my parents that the death penalty shouldn't be used. I'd been arguing with them about it for years.

I can't even begin to imagine losing my children in such a tragedy, and then being accused of murdering them.

[u/-SaC → u/KhaoticMess]

Our most famous executioner in the UK was the hangman Albert Pierrepoint, who worked right up until capital punishment was abolished.

He spoke very strongly against the death penalty in his later years, and was a part of multiple miscarriages of justice (such as the time he hanged a man for murder, then three years later hanged the man who it turned out had -actually- committed the murder). He also had the unenviable task of having to hang a friend, one of the regulars in the pub he owned^1.

 

He said in his autobiography that the death penalty wasn't a deterrent for anyone, in his view:

I cannot agree [with the supposed deterrent of capital punishment]. There have been murders since the beginning of time, and we shall go on looking for deterrents until the end of time. If death were a deterrent, I might be expected to know.

It is I who have faced them last, young lads and girls, working men, grandmothers. I have been amazed to see the courage with which they take that walk into the unknown. It did not deter them then, and it had not deterred them when they committed what they were convicted for. All the men and women whom I have faced at that final moment convince me that in what I have done I have not prevented a single murder.

And if death does not work to deter one person, it should not be held to deter any. Capital punishment, in my view, achieved nothing except revenge. Never deterrent; only revenge.

 

---

 

 

^{1 Pierrepoint bought and ran the pub “Help the Poor Struggler” after World War II, and James Corbitt was one of his regulars. Corbitt was known as "Tish", Pierrepoint as "Tosh".}

^{The two had sung a duet of “Danny Boy” on the night that Corbitt then went out and murdered his girlfriend out of jealousy Pierrepoint wrote in his his autobiography:}

^{I thought if any man had a deterrent to murder poised before him, it was this troubadour whom I called Tish. He was not only aware of the rope, he had the man who handled it beside him singing a duet. The deterrent did not work.}

^{At twenty seconds to nine the next morning I went into the death cell. He seemed under a great strain, but I did not see stark fear in his eyes, only a more childlike worry. He was anxious to be remembered, and to be accepted. "Hallo, Tosh," he said, not very confidently. "Hallo Tish," I said. "How are you?" I was not effusive, just gave the casual warmth of my nightly greeting from behind the bar.}

^{He smiled and relaxed after this greeting. After strapping his arms, I said "Come on Tish, old chap". He went to the gallows lightly...I would say that he ran.}

[u/navikredstar → u/KhaoticMess]

I still find myself kind of torn on the death penalty, because I think there are some crimes where it's better to get rid of the person that committed them, because there's no reforming, no rehabilitation possible, they've done the most heinous, despicable things - I think it should be kept in cases of crimes against humanity, or mass killings for racist reasons like the kid who shot up the Tops supermarket by me and killed a bunch of people who were just out getting groceries, because they were black. There's NO question of the guilt here.

But I also recognize that maybe I'm not someone who should be able to make that determination, either - there are SO many innocent people who have been executed and there's no taking that back.

Part of me still wants it for the absolute worst of the worst, like mass murderers or war criminals or whatever, like the Nazi leadership. Where there was no question of their guilt. But I can also recognize that maybe I shouldn't listen to that part of me that wants even that, simply because there's too many cases of innocent people, even kids, being executed for crimes they didn't commit. There's no easy answer, aside from not executing people at all, because at least in that case, there's still the possibility of overturning a wrongful conviction. So yeah, it really probably shouldn't be used.

Edit: to spare my inbox, I did some more thinking on this, and I'm coming down on the side against the death penalty. There's been too many abuses and wrongful convictions of innocent people, and that doesn't sit right with me.

[u/bicyclefortwo → u/navikredstar]

I think it's very rocky territory when the state gets to decide who lives and dies, full stop. As much as I would want to get rid of confirmed diabolical people, it's just too much risk

[u/zielawolfsong → u/bicyclefortwo]

The interesting thing to me is that the group who thinks the government is a bunch of corrupt, incompetent nimrods who shouldn’t be allowed to tell anyone what to do, is the same group in favor of giving the government the power to execute people.

[u/mattmild27 → u/navikredstar]

Best way I've heard it put is: I'm anti-death penalty not because I don't believe there aren't some crimes/criminals that deserve death, but because I don't trust the state to make that decision. If even one person is wrongfully executed then the whole system falls apart IMO, and based on the amount of death row exonerations, obviously the state is wrong a lot more than some are willing to admit.

[u/Chaldramus → u/mattmild27]

This is 100% where I am. We’re not capable of designing a system where only the truly guilty get death.

[u/ninjapanda042 → u/navikredstar]

If you want a black-and-white, emotionless argument, it's actually more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

[u/Sneptacular → u/ninjapanda042]

Like the amount of money spent on 2 decades on death row in this case and years upon years of appeals and everything is EASILY in the multiple millions alone for him.

[u/throwaway-notthrown → u/navikredstar]

I don’t disagree with you, like obviously the world is a better place without serial killers and other people, but if even one innocent person is murdered, it’s too much. This is why we can’t have the death penalty.

[u/Chiggadup → u/Dahhhkness]

the prisoner, who is now at the mercy of the courts or Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott

Well that’s bleak.

[u/Mentirosa → u/Chiggadup]

Extremely bleak. Greg Abbott only pardons actual murderers like the racist pedophile Daniel Perry.

[u/AlawaEgg → u/Mentirosa]

As long as they're white, yeah?

[u/UndertakerFred → u/AlawaEgg]

Or if they commit premeditated murder of a BLM protestor.

[u/xs65083 → u/Mentirosa]

I'd have rooted for the tree in the park.

[u/Pootang_Wootang → u/Chiggadup]

If only he shot and killed a guy at a BLM protest then Abbott would care.

[u/Jealous_Credit_9740 → u/Chiggadup]

Yeah doesnt protect kids so he sure asf wont help free this man either fucked state i hate it here

[u/iusedtobeyourwife → u/Dahhhkness]

Robert Roberson’s case is just so sad. I can’t even begin to imagine how many people are behind bars because of this junk science. Apparently even shaken baby syndrome is not real science. How many people have been convicted using that theory? Ugh the death penalty should be illegal specifically because we keep finding out the science convictions are built on is junk. I could rant about this all day.

[u/BaconAlmighty → u/iusedtobeyourwife]

science learns, anything that was incorrect should be looked at through the learned science of today.

[u/obi_wan_the_phony → u/BaconAlmighty]

You have large groups in the US actively trying to not only deny science (for themselves) but also eliminate the ability to learn and actually undertake science as a community. If that isn’t fucked I don’t know what is.

[u/Homeless_Swan → u/iusedtobeyourwife]

Law enforcement in America fabricate lots of theories to justify lynching more black people. "Excited Delirium" is another made up excuse from scumbag cops to say "he got mad when I called him ni**er boy and shot his dog! he had super human animalistic strength so I had to shoot him 40 times in the back of the head! Come to think of it, it looks like suicide. Nothing to see here."

[u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA → u/Homeless_Swan]

I thought "excited delirium" was an excuse cops would use when they would fry people with their tasers over and over, something the company itself rolled with. I seem to remember the term being used in the Robert Dziekański case.

[u/Homeless_Swan → u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA]

It's been used to justify a lot of despicable behavior from American law enforcement.

[u/Sneptacular → u/Homeless_Swan]

Also the belief that black and Native people can somehow "tolerate" more pain.

[u/Ojohnrogge → u/iusedtobeyourwife]

Shaken baby syndrome is a catch all term for a series of injuries which are very well documented as an abuse injuries. Tragically this really happens though the term is not used as a diagnosis

[u/SmartyCat12 → u/iusedtobeyourwife]

Just wait until judges start abusing the Chevron decision and decide for themselves what the science says, regardless of expert advice.

[u/xs65083 → u/iusedtobeyourwife]

Wouldn't be the first time. May the bastards and bitches who railroaded Cameron Todd Willingham and then legally murdered him never have a night of peaceful sleep. Fuck them, fuck their families.

[u/IJustSignedUpToUp → u/Dahhhkness]

This isn't even new for Texas. This is the article that changed my opinion on capital punishment, where Texas executed a man with the "expert" testimony of a single fire Marshal.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire

[u/Jimmyg100 → u/lokarlalingran]

It’s like the trolly problem, but the three people aren’t tied to the tracks and can move out of the way and do move out of the way and the breaks actually work but the operator flips the switch to hit the one guy tied down anyways.

[u/Homeless_Swan → u/lokarlalingran]

Nothing brings Republicans more joy than a good old fashioned lynching. Missouri Republicans are some of the most insanely racist people I've ever met and I lived a stone's throw away from Idaho for a few years.

[u/stjoechief1 → u/Homeless_Swan]

Jay Nixon was the same when he was governor. He was a real POS

[u/Homeless_Swan → u/stjoechief1]

I never actually lived in Missouri but lived next door and have family and friends from MO. Kansas City is pretty decent but the rest of the place is like Idaho without the natural beauty.

I was once pulled over by the police in St Louis (just passing through) and they told me "you don't belong here, it's not safe, watch out for monkeys escaped from the zoo". I didn't even really comprehend what he said until I was driving away like "are you fucking serious? Did that just happen?! Monkeys from the zoo?! JFC"

[u/AlawaEgg → u/Homeless_Swan]

Can confirm. As of 2002, St Louis police are Delta male dickholes who like the harass brown folk.

[u/ILikeLenexa → u/Peach__Pixie]

Also, Governor Parsons could have single handedly fixed this, but he's too busy with journalists who push f12.

[u/derfy2 → u/ILikeLenexa]

but he's too busy with journalists who push f12.

The.... developer tools in Chrome/Firefox?

[u/ILikeLenexa → u/derfy2]

https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/15/f12-isnt-hacking-missouri-governor-threatens-to-prosecute-local-journalist-for-finding-exposed-state-data/

[u/SOUTHPAWMIKE → u/ILikeLenexa]

From the article:

Missouri’s Republican Governor Mike Parson described the journalist who uncovered the vulnerability as a “hacker”, and said the newspaper uncovered the flaw in “an attempt to embarrass the state”.

If there's anyone in this story that's an embarrassment to Missouri, it is in fact massive dipshit Mike Parson.

[u/Dr_Tibbles → u/SOUTHPAWMIKE]

Legit this scenario just happened in Columbus a few months ago

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/columbus-cyberattack-lawsuit-expanded/530-38ebfeb4-fffd-4c57-a622-4394b035c313

The whistleblower is being sued by the city iirc

[u/SOUTHPAWMIKE → u/Dr_Tibbles]

I mean at least in that instance ransomware from a legitimate threat actor was involved. My current job is doing IT for a municipality, and our leadership has actually done a great job of making resources available to put anti-ransomware safeguards in place. In the Columbus case, there was definitely someone from their IT team pleading for more cybersecurity funding, and they were most certainly ignored; I fucking guarantee it.

The thing viscous racist and legendary piece-of-shit Mike Parson is mad about is just moronic. It's the digital equivalent of leaving your personal diary open for all to see on an airport bench while you go take a shit, and then trying to criminally charge someone who happened to have a casual glance.

[u/Kolby_Jack33 → u/SOUTHPAWMIKE]

Abortion is on the ballot in the general election for Missouri. It'd be nice if that key issue pushed enough people to the polls to give that cunt the boot he deserves. Him and Hawley.

[u/derfy2 → u/ILikeLenexa]

Oh. Oh no.

sigh

I was hoping I was wrong.

[u/KJatWork → u/derfy2]

That's how us in IT here in Missouri felt as well when that went down.

Sadly, this isn't an isolated incident. Politicians that couldn't figure out how to set up a wireless router or delete their Recycle Bin are making laws that impact IT across the US (and world) and they've been doing it for years.

Here's an example at the Federal level, Series of tubes - Wikiwand

[u/dopey_giraffe → u/ILikeLenexa]

Lol for a little while I was retweeting his tweets edited with developer tools to say something else. It was a fun hobby for when I had too much time.

[u/monkeypickle → u/derfy2]

Shhhh, don't give away hacking secrets!

[u/Aztec111 → u/ILikeLenexa]

I despise the man

[u/atomicskiracer → u/Peach__Pixie]

Republicans can completely miss me with their pro-life bullshit.

[u/AngusMcTibbins → u/Peach__Pixie]

If you are in Missouri, please vote for Elad Gross (D) for attorney general

https://www.eladgross.org/

[u/thesaddestpanda → u/Peach__Pixie]

Its a red governor with a red attorney general. What were people expecting when they vote GOP? Honesty, mercy, justice, and kind-heartedness? No, its the worst, nastiest, racist, vindictive, shittiest people imaginable happily doing the bidding of the capital owning class, at the expense of the working class.

Missouri voters killed this guy by pulling the lever for the GOP. They might as well have pulled the lethal injection lever themselves. All these republican voters have blood on their hands tonight.

[u/ruiner8850 → u/thesaddestpanda]

What were people expecting when they vote GOP?

It's funny how "the party of small government" is completely fine with the government murdering innocent people. It doesn't get anymore big government than that.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/ruiner8850]

"Why should I care? I've never been condemned to death on a dubious conviction."

They literally do not care about anything until it affects them personally.

[u/Banana-Republicans → u/Dahhhkness]

its such a baffling mindset to me, like utterly alien.

[u/fcocyclone → u/ruiner8850]

Not just the party of small government, the party of "the government can't be trusted with anything".

They continually don't trust government but then think it is competent enough to be handing out death sentences? Come on now.

[u/Aztec111 → u/thesaddestpanda]

We will get more of this evil if Trump is elected.

[u/Auburntiger84 → u/Peach__Pixie]

With all the advances in DNA evidence and using it or the lack thereof to overturn trials I just can’t believe they wouldn’t give this man more time. Screw you and your “Show Me State” Missouri. How can you possibly reason this if you’re the Supreme Court lawyers?

[u/Insectshelf3 → u/Auburntiger84]

the supreme court is absolutely 200% ok with this result. one of the defining features of the roberts court is that it has repeatedly made it more and more difficult to overturn convictions and to win appeals against a sentence of death.

[u/elcdragon → u/Peach__Pixie]

Thank you for pointing this out, what a horrendous story.

[u/Dragonlicker69 → u/Peach__Pixie]

The governor who undid the previous governor's pause on his execution and dismissed the investigation into the evidence, the AG, the members of the state supreme court, and six SCOTUS judges (you know which ones) who voted against staying the execution all have blood on their hands

[u/wspnut → u/Peach__Pixie]

Is this the prosecutors office that firmly doesn't believe in the death penalty and thus is driving to overturn death penalty convictions? If so, I could see this coming down to petty politics, which is abhorrent.

[u/EarthlingSil]

Why the fuck does the State Attorney General got such a hard on for murdering people?

[u/Barbaracle → u/EarthlingSil]

Andrew Bailey is an American attorney and politician. A Republican, he has served as Missouri Attorney General since appointment by Governor Mike Parson in January 2023.

During his tenure as attorney general, Bailey has adopted conservative positions. He has refused to release prisoners after overturned convictions, attempted unsuccessfully to restrict gender-affirming care, battled initiatives to restore access to abortion in Missouri, and staunchly defended former President Donald Trump over his legal problems.

This guy is a nightmare.

[u/antoninlevin → u/Barbaracle]

He has refused to release prisoners after overturned convictions,

The hell is his rationale here? "Our legal system has determined that you're innocent, but you still deserve to be punished?"

[u/gamrin → u/antoninlevin]

This seems to be it. "Once a criminal, always a criminal". And he thinks you're a criminal as soon as you are accused.

[u/my606ins → u/EarthlingSil]

He’s really a ghoul.

[u/MysteryCrabMeat → u/my606ins]

Wasn’t the previous AG a racist ghoul too or am I getting my human shitstains mixed up?

Edit: nope I’m not wrong. It was Eric Schmitt, who’s now state senator. He blamed China for covid and is a known homophobe.

I don’t know what’s in the water in MO but y’all make Texas look good. I say this as a perpetually embarrassed Texan.

[u/GTOdriver04 → u/my606ins]

No. Walton Goggins made ghouls cool.

This man is a disgusting parasite.

[u/KilllerWhale → u/EarthlingSil]

Because there is no fucking accountability

[u/Chaomayhem → u/EarthlingSil]

For many GOP Officials it really is just as simple as they're evil and hate life

[u/fantasyoutsider → u/Chaomayhem]

you forgot racist

[u/microview → u/EarthlingSil]

He's a Christian.

[u/MoonDogSpot1954 → u/microview]

Christian conservative... they're a special kind of demon.

[u/Tacitus111 → u/EarthlingSil]

Because it’s an election year, and he has to pretend to be “hard on crime” for the rubes to vote for him. Nevermind the actual details of the case and who’s guilty or innocent. That doesn’t matter. He just needs a corpse to parade around to prove how supposedly tough he is.

[u/ThisAudience1389 → u/EarthlingSil]

Here I fixed it for you:

Why the fuck does the State Attorney General got such a hard on for murdering BLACK people?

[u/Monkeyknife]

This is on you, Mike Parson. You’re even less of a man than I thought if that is possible.

[u/JebusChrust → u/Monkeyknife]

Dude is a massive pile of shit. Andy Reid's son, Britt Reid, drove intoxicated and crashed into a family, causing potentially permanent brain damage to a 5 year old girl, and Mike Parson commuted the three year prison sentence early because the Chiefs are a good football team.

[u/kimchiMushrromBurger → u/JebusChrust]

That's pretty messed up

[u/binkerfluid → u/JebusChrust]

I believe he also publicly criticized the stl prosecutor (who did suck fwiw) when someone crashed into a girl leaving a volleyball tournament...then he went and and did what he did for Reid.

[u/HandBananas → u/JebusChrust]

The Chiefs just get away with everything smh

[u/Aztec111 → u/Monkeyknife]

He has been my boss for his entire term and he disgusts me. I will be so glad when he is gone!

[u/agentfelix → u/Monkeyknife]

People should be protesting outside this klan member's house.

[u/TimeLordDoctor105]

Reading the ap news article, the plea deal was signed off by a judge and then the STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL appealed the decision to ensure this man was put to death. This is beyond cruel. My feelings go to all parties involved and I hope that the attorney general and all others involves in ensuring he died no longer find rest. They murdered him, no question about it.

[u/Spaghetti-Rat → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

If there's anything being appealed, why wouldn't a stay of execution be automatic until everything is fully vetted? So stupid. I know nothing about this man's case but it sounds wrong to execute someone with some aspect (plea deal/appeal) still pending.

[u/felldestroyed → u/Spaghetti-Rat]

It was denied by the state and US supreme court.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/felldestroyed]

The Roberts Court is going to go down as one of the most shameful in history. So many horrific decisions in such a short amount of time.

[u/bearbarebere → u/Dahhhkness]

The conservatives absolutely do not care and in fact cheer these people on.

[u/dexmonic → u/bearbarebere]

Normal people would wonder why the cruelty is necessary, but for conservatives the cruelty is the point.

[u/CensoredUser → u/Dahhhkness]

If we have records of this history. They want to show you how broken the system is in order to make you feel like fixing it is hopeless.

They break it to sell you on the idea that it's broken and there is no point in fixing it. It's actually evil.

[u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA → u/CensoredUser]

The GOP says the government's broken, and they'll do everything in their power to prove it to you.

[u/currently_pooping_rn → u/Dahhhkness]

Supreme Court Injustices

[u/dabeeman → u/currently_pooping_rn]

careful Trump more wants to jail people that speak badly about justices. the party of freedom is truly living up to its name

[u/MCbrodie → u/Spaghetti-Rat]

This is exactly why the death penalty should be abolished. Wrongful conviction and serving long sentences are bad enough. You can't walk back execution the same way, though.

[u/the_brunster → u/MCbrodie]

It's also not a deterrent to violent crime.

The Life of David Gale is a powerful reminder of why this punishment should not exist.

[u/chingostarr → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

Andrew Bailey is a piece of shit.

[u/Debando → u/chingostarr]

Man I had to scroll way too far for someone to share the AG's identity. Andrew Bailey is indeed a piece of shit.

[u/monty624 → u/chingostarr]

He murdered this man.

[u/Saw_gameover → u/chingostarr]

Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey is a murderous scumbag. What a vile man.

[u/feverlast → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

State AG wants to appear tough on crime so he kills a citizen the state justice system is pretty sure is innocent.

The fact that these people can live with themselves after doing something like this is disqualifying in and of itself.

[u/piecesmissing04 → u/feverlast]

Everyone involved in going through with his execution despite better knowledge should be charged with murder. There need to be consequences for taking an innocent life.

[u/Prestigious-Wall637 → u/piecesmissing04]

And yet, there will be none. The history of this country and culture within its institutions hold nothing but contempt for equality and a reality written by white supremacy.

[u/JusticeRain5 → u/piecesmissing04]

I don't even care if he ended up being guilty, it sounded like nobody actually involved wanted him dead

[u/TateAcolyte → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

Conservative Christianity is a death cult.

[u/Low_Pickle_112 → u/TateAcolyte]

I grew up in an evangelical church. Very conservative, as you might expect. They were always, always, always on and on about the end of the world. When you're in the middle of it and that's just what you know, it seems normal, but looking back, yeesh. Yeah, it's not a good thing.

[u/ice-eight → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

Can't risk looking too soft on the falsely accused

[u/annul → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

the STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL appealed the decision

he did it once, and he can and will do it again. he is THE direct cause of a murder and a present danger to society.

at what point do people start protecting themselves and the overall society from such dangerous forces?

[u/Standard_Wooden_Door → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

Aside from all of the obvious, how does the state AG have the power to basically tell all the other government officials to F off and overturn these new agreements?

[u/neuronexmachina → u/TimeLordDoctor105]

The Missouri AG is pretty much exactly the sort of Trumper one would expect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bailey_(politician)

 In 2024, Bailey sued Planned Parenthood, accusing it of trafficking minors across state lines for abortions[10] using a Project Veritas video as evidence. Planned Parenthood describes the video as "heavily doctored and edited"; it was found to feature a fictional girl while purporting to be factual.

... Bailey agreed to have his office represent senators Rick Brattin, Denny Hoskins and Nick Schroer in a defamation lawsuit related to the 2024 Kansas City parade shooting, when the senators posted misinformation on social media identifying a bystander as both the shooter and an undocumented immigrant. Bailey claims that the senators are protected by legislative immunity and that their social media posts, later deleted, were made in their official capacity

... Bailey has a history of denying overturning convictions even when local prosecutors present evidence the convicted is in fact innocent. In the case of Sandra Hemme, who served 43 years of a life sentence prior to her sentence being overturned in June 2024,[22] Bailey’s office attempted to circumvent the order to release Hemme. On July 19, Judge Ryan Horsman threatened to hold Bailey in contempt if Hemme was not immediately released from a prison in Chillicothe following rulings by Horsman, an appellate court, and the Missouri Supreme Court. Bailey’s office was scolded for telling prison officials not to release Hemme despite the ruling. “To call someone and tell them to disregard a court order is wrong,” Judge Horsman said

[u/ZenithGamage]

If there's an ounce of doubt that someone may be innocent, then they shouldn't receive the death penalty

[u/Gibscreen → u/ZenithGamage]

Exactly. The standard is "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." Not "beyond all doubt." I'm against the death penalty anyway. But if you're going to do it the standard needs to be that you beyond ALL doubt.

[u/Galveira → u/ZenithGamage]

How about abolish the death penalty?

[u/GlancingArc → u/ZenithGamage]

Even if someone is guilty, the death penalty shouldn't exist. Maybe if we didn't have the resources to house them it would be an issue but that isn't the problem. It would be more efficient to empty the prisons of minor offenders than execute the worst of the worst.

[u/STLOliver]

Mike Parson commuted the sentence of a Chiefs coach that drove drunk and nearly killed a 5 year old earlier this year, btw.

[u/Aztec111 → u/STLOliver]

He is evil, most Republicans these days are.

[u/train_spotting → u/STLOliver]

Oh wow. Nuts. Diving down a rabbit hole.

[u/AzNmamba]

Fuck the Supreme Court and all the other institutions that failed this man.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/AzNmamba]

It's amazing how the kinds of people who claim that they distrust the government somehow trust it to be 100% accurate in condemning people to death.

And it is not. All the officially (posthumously) exonerated ones, all the ones whose guilt is now doubted, all the people on death row who were exonerated before their executions, and all the ones sentenced to life (or an otherwise long sentence) who were exonerated by later evidence...The innocent are punished in this country all the time.

[u/Xzmmc → u/Dahhhkness]

Almost as if they have no convictions and just like hurting people.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/Xzmmc]

Gotta be "tough on crime", you know, it's what the Founding Fathers would've wanted.

Oh, wait:

“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, 'whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,' and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.”

John Adams

“I should not regret a fair and full trial of the entire abolition of capital punishments by any State willing to make it.”

James Madison

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.

Thomas Paine

[u/righthandtypist → u/Dahhhkness]

The tough on crime spiel is just a joke at this point anyway, look at who they have running for president. There's a list with over 500 names of GOP representatives who have CSA, SA, and other related crimes.

Edit: Here’s a more complete list of a couple of thousand Republican pedos:

https://www.dailykos.com/history/user/CajsaLilliehook

Here’s a study of sex crimes against children and political affiliation: (spoiler, they are Republicans )

http://egbertowillies.com/tag

[u/JaysonDeflatum → u/Dahhhkness]

100% against the DP in all nations.

Apart from my faith there has been multiple cases in multiple countries of innocent people being killed.

Give someone life in jail and there’s space for new evidence to come, a new witness to speak out, etc.

Kill someone and that mistake is fatal and forever.

As long as it exists innocent people are guaranteed to be sentenced to it.

And for the reasonable doubt argument ay of the cases like Marcellus going through all these appeals aren’t the ones with evidence most seem unshakeable no matter what which is beyond reasonable doubt. That kind of irrefutable evidence is rarely available and it should be what’s needed to literally kill someone but it isn’t.

[u/ThePalmtop]

I can’t believe this shit happened oh my god

[u/the_gaymer_girl → u/ThePalmtop]

Look up the case of Curtis Flowers. He was tried six times for the same case by the same prosecutor and spent over 20 years on death row even though his cases were, in order:

• conviction thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct

• conviction thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct

• conviction thrown out for excluding black jurors

• mistrial

• mistrial

• conviction thrown out again for excluding black jurors

The prosecutors finally gave up and dropped the charges in 2020 (after kicking about the idea of a seventh trial) when they realized that the prosecution’s evidence and testimony was so polluted from this fuckery that there was no way they could get anything to stick even if he did do it.

[u/whaaatanasshole → u/the_gaymer_girl]

What a fucking waste for everyone. Choose your goddamn battles and free up the courts.

[u/the_gaymer_girl → u/whaaatanasshole]

Doug Evans got to ride off into the sunset to a cushy retirement with no consequences whatsoever. He should’ve been disbarred and sent to prison.

[u/DemonCipher13 → u/the_gaymer_girl]

Wait, when does double jeopardy kick in? Isn't it designed to specifically prevent things like this?

[u/the_gaymer_girl → u/DemonCipher13]

The problem with double jeopardy is that it only applies if the defendant is actually found not guilty, in this case they kept finding him guilty (the two mistrials were pretty much because the DA didn’t manage to strike enough black jurors from the panel) and the case was just remanded in each case, meaning they sent it back for a new trial.

[u/Casanova_Fran → u/ThePalmtop]

I mean......this the united states. 

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/remembering-the-execution-of-14-year-old-george-stinney-80-years-later

[u/Dahhhkness → u/Casanova_Fran]

And next month, Texas is due to execute an innocent man.

"Beyond reasonable doubt," my ass.

[u/paholg → u/Dahhhkness]

Jesus Christ. Imagine that your baby dies, and rather than having a chance to grieve, you are imprisoned for 20 years and then murdered. 

He should be released and be given millions of dollars not this.

[u/OperationActual1520 → u/Casanova_Fran]

"the girl was ill with a fever of 104.5F (40.3C) shortly before she fell unconscious, had undiagnosed pneumonia, and had been given medical drugs that have since been deemed life-threatening for children – all of which could explain her dire state"

How can you live with yourself sending this man to his death

[u/cheeruphumanity → u/ThePalmtop]

That's why no other Western country has capital punishment. The government should never be allowed to kill its citizens.

[u/BP_Ray]

It's absolutely mind-blowing to me that something like this can happen, despite vocal opposition from the prosecutor, the victim's family, and multiple of the jurors, who all recognize that the conviction this man received was not made with all the facts, and yet the machine marches on anyways because common fucking sense goes out the window when dealing with these institutions.

Yet people will tell me shit like "You just don't understand the legal system, this is how It's supposed to work." when our legal system is so fucking bone-headed that it would rather murder a potentially innocent man than admit it was wrong.

I can't even imagine how anyone involved with pushing this through can sleep at night. At least with people you're certain are killers themselves, I'm sure It's a bit easier to rest at night knowing you did the "right" thing. But anyone involved with allowing this to go through, whether they were "just following orders" or "just letting the system work" surely has to understand they have blood on their hands right? I wouldn't be able to sleep comfortably at night anymore.

[u/emjaycue → u/BP_Ray]

Lawyer here. This is not how our legal system is supposed to work.

Unfortunately in the last 10 years our legal system has become a political system.

Vote.

[u/CallMeFierce → u/emjaycue]

Come on now. The US legal system has long been about murdering innocent Black men. 

[u/mitchandre → u/emjaycue]

That's a joke right? It's always been political.

[u/hail2pitt1985 → u/BP_Ray]

And trump walks free.

[u/invalid-spoon]

Fuck that cunt Governor Mike Parson.

[u/pickle_whop → u/invalid-spoon]

To quote Gov. Mike Parson

When it comes to me, it's not about whether it's right or wrong. It's really about has the process been served throughout here of all the due process that they've had.

Apparently the Missouri governor doesn't believe the courts could make a mistake and thus have nothing to correct.

[u/High-Priest-of-Helix → u/pickle_whop]

It is quite explicitly his job to care about right and wrong. Article IV, Section 7 of the Missouri Constitution gives the governor the sole ability to grant reprieves, computations, and pardons. The whole point of our checks and balances is that the executive can overrule wrong convictions. In fact, courts are largely reluctant to overturn convictions in large part because that's "the governor's job to do".

There are two options here:

1) he doesn't have a solid grasp of the high school civics level of his job responsibilities, or

2) he does know, and decided he'd rather murder a man because it might cost him votes not to.

Deplorable

[u/pickle_whop → u/High-Priest-of-Helix]

He's actually not running for re-election. It's more like he does know but doesn't actually care about Missouri citizens.

[u/High-Priest-of-Helix → u/pickle_whop]

Congratulations, you somehow found a way to make it worse.

[u/chickenchaser19 → u/pickle_whop]

So he thinks it's justified because they due process'd hard enough?

[u/pickle_whop → u/chickenchaser19]

Mike Parson doesn't give a shit about prison inmates and uses the concept of the justice system as a way to support his indifference.

He has not provided clemency for anyone during his time in office. He doesn't care enough to actually think about these cases.

[u/xs65083 → u/pickle_whop]

I hope he ends up indicted for corruption and ends up like Ryan and Blago in Illinois. You just know that a self-righteous cuntmuffin like him is involved in multiple levels of corruption. The more holy-than-thou, the more corrupt -- it's almost axiomatic.

[u/KilllerWhale]

Absolutely fucking bloodthirsty scum

[u/savetheunstable → u/KilllerWhale]

Sociopaths, all of them. The GOP is a deathcult

[u/Royal-Bumblebee4817]

Being pro-life.. with conditions

[u/pikpikcarrotmon → u/Royal-Bumblebee4817]

They're not pro life, they're anti choice.

[u/annaleigh13]

Queue in 3-5 years “he was innocent. We apologize”

[u/WebHead1287 → u/annaleigh13]

Can’t pay a dead man. That’s the goal

[u/Ph0X → u/WebHead1287]

I don't know why more people don't state this obvious fact. Setting him free would require them to admit they were wrong and pay him money owed for ruining his life. If that's your choice, vs just murdering him, and you're a soul-less cruel ghoul, obviously you're taking the latter.

[u/_le_slap → u/Ph0X]

The state should be forced to pay his next of kin.

[u/mistermeh → u/annaleigh13]

In the details of the case, that's hard to see that happening. Probably a big part to why he went for a plea deal, which everybody and anybody was on board with including the victim's family. But the State's Attorney General was dead set on this, making it very politically charged.

[u/PMzyox]

Last time I saw this thread, I went and read the details of this case. To me, it seemed like he probably was guilty, but the state had a massive lack of credible evidence, so they fabricated a bunch and blocked any that did not support their narrative from being presented. They totally railroaded this guy, even if he did do it. That’s not right. Beyond reasonable doubt applies because of how poorly the case was conducted.

[u/helpjackoffhishorse → u/PMzyox]

Same. I read the court transcripts and I think he did it. His friend was sold the deceased’s laptop and there were possessions of the deceased in Marcellus’ car. Lack of his DNA at the scene doesn’t mean much.

[u/randomaccount178 → u/helpjackoffhishorse]

There is also the witnesses which alone their credibility could probably be attacked but together are fairly unassailable.

[u/Advanced-Trainer508 → u/PMzyox]

This is exactly my take. The other evidence was pretty damning. But the lack of his DNA, and the presence of other DNA is your reasonable doubt.

[u/SonOfMcGee → u/Advanced-Trainer508]

The other DNA was determined to be that of an investigator (or prosecutor?) that handled the knife during the investigation. It caused a bit of excitement that there was a “new lead”, but it wound up just being a red herring that neither further incriminates nor exonerates him.
But as the guy you’re replying to says, the rest of the details of the original case are questionable. And while any random person can take a look and make their own judgement, enough of the people that matter (victim’s family, a judge, current prosecutor) have said there’s enough doubt to call off the execution.
Shame they weren’t listened to.

[u/Mr_Engineering → u/Advanced-Trainer508]

But the lack of his DNA, and the presence of other DNA is your reasonable doubt.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

That his DNA wasn't found on the murder weapon doesn't mean that he didn't commit the murder, it means that his DNA wasn't transferred to the murder weapon, perhaps due to the use of gloves.

The weapon was contaminated through handling by investigators. Sloppy, but not exculpatory.

[u/deathclam1 → u/PMzyox]

As far as I was aware, its not even about if someone is guilty or not, its about whether they receive a fair trial and fair access to the law and defense, and that seems like that's out the window at this point. What a sham.

[u/plutoforprez]

I am so angry. This is barbaric.

[u/HoopOnPoop]

The Governor and AG could have just said nothing and let the system play out. Neither would have lost anything and Williams would still be in prison for the rest of his life. Instead, they expensed a significant amount of effort to make sure he got killed. Interesting how guys that I'm sure talk a lot about being Christians can so easily forget the 6th Commandment.

[u/jaklacroix]

I just can't fucking believe they did it. That attorney general should be in prison.

[u/Keoni9 → u/jaklacroix]

That attorney general should be in prison.

You can say that about several Republican AGs these days

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/GateOfD]

When is the next election for state governor? His ass needs to be kicked out of office 

[u/cyberentomology → u/GateOfD]

He’s termed out.

[u/notkenneth → u/GateOfD]

November, but Parsons is term limited and cannot run.

His lieutenant governor, Mike Kehoe, is the Republican nominee. Recent polling had him up 16 points over the Democratic challenger, Crystal Quade, with 11% undecided.

The Attorney General who pushed for the execution to move forward, Andrew Bailey, is running again in the election in November, but is also polling around 15 points higher than his Democratic challenger, Elad Gross.

[u/Rowan1980]

Fucking hell. This is infuriating.

[u/LadyBogangles14]

This is why I’m a death penalty abolitionist

[u/DooDooSquank]

During testimony at his murder trial, Williams’ then-girlfriend also said he confessed to the killing. Williams picked her up the day of Gayle’s slaying wearing a jacket over a bloody shirt and with scratches on his neck. She saw a laptop in his car – later shown to have been stolen from Gayle’s apartment – and a purse in the trunk, with Gayle’s identification card

[u/lalalibraaa]

Horrific. Absolutely horrific.

[u/Advanced-Trainer508]

I can’t say for certain whether he’s guilty or not. While the other evidence against him is pretty incriminating, the absence of his DNA, along with the presence of other DNA, introduces reasonable doubt. This isn’t a case of absolute certainty, and that’s exactly what the death penalty should require. If there’s even a 1% chance we could be wrong, we shouldn’t proceed. It’s immoral, it’s unjust, and we can’t undo it once it’s done.

Even more troubling is that the victims’ family members opposed the execution entirely, they didn’t want this. How can we claim to seek justice while disregarding what would actually bring them a sense of it? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Tonight, my heart feels unbearably heavy. Heavy for the victims’ family, heavy for Marcellus’ family, and heavy for the part of me that fears we may have executed an innocent man.

[u/dynorphin → u/Advanced-Trainer508]

The absence of his DNA (Note the innocence project's expert testified he couldn't exclude the perpetrator, just that it was contaminated with other samples) isn't reasonable doubt because it's reasonable for there to be explanations why a positive match couldn't be found.  Contamination, use by other people prior to the murder, gloves, the weapon being cleaned after the murder.

The presence of two investigators DNA on the weapon isn't reasonable doubt because it's reasonable to assume that the DNA got there when they were handling the weapon in the course of their enployment, not that they actually killed the victim. 

The DNA is irrelevant if not definitively exculpatory because it wasn't used to convict him.  He was convicted based off the possession of items from the murder scene, testimony from his girlfriend about bloody clothes,  and testimony from his girlfriend and another man that he confessed to them including in the case of the girlfriend details that were not publicly released. 

Now could those people be lying or just mistaken?  Yes, people can lie, or recollect things incorrectly, but that's something for the jury to decide.  They heard the testimony, they found it credible to the point that it would be unreasonable to believe two people were lying and had somehow set him up with physical evidence from the scene.  Now there's always going to be some conspiracy theory possibility, maybe his ex was the murderer and she set him up or paid someone to commit the murder and give him/plant the stolen goods to sell. But that isn't reasonable doubt, it's unreasonable doubt.  Even with a positive DNA match these assholes always have some excuse for why it wasn't them.  He and his legal team did everything they could to discredit the witnesses against him and failed. The case was built on their testimony that's completely normal practice. 

I don't like that they killed him because it feels like this execution at this time is more a political act than a judicial one and the original prosecutor seemed to use dubious reasons to strike black jurors but I have no doubt he's guilty.

[u/captaincumsock69 → u/Advanced-Trainer508]

I thought they did find his DNA it was just included with a bunch of other people?

They found the woman’s clothes in his car and he admitted it to people.

Death penalty isn’t something I agree with but what am I missing?

[u/TheCavis → u/Advanced-Trainer508]

along with the presence of other DNA

The issue the defense had with that DNA is that it was identified as consistent with a prosecutor and another employee in the prosecutor's office who, being idiots, handled the murder weapon without gloves. That meant the evidence wasn't exculpatory any more, which turned the case back to a "the jury messed up" argument that courts generally hate.

It's one of the reasons I don't find the death penalty to be reasonable. The judiciary doesn't want to consider the jury making a mistake, even an honest one that they realize later. The politicians that could commute the sentence have political incentives that sometimes preclude doing the reasonable thing. There's no way back from killing someone and no way to guarantee it's correct going forward. Life in prison is still an injustice for an innocent man, but at least there's the possibility that technology will advance enough to clear him in the future and let him reclaim some freedom before the end.

[u/Mentirosa]

Marcellus has been lynched by the State of Missouri. Governor Mike Parson and State Attorney General Andrew Bailey are murderers. Six justices of the Supreme Court have blood on their hands.

[u/One_Acanthisitta_389 → u/Mentirosa]

That’s not what lynched means. He had a trial. He had 26 years of legal appeals.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/Mentirosa]

Oh, gee, I wonder which six....

[u/zerocoolforschool → u/Dahhhkness]

I thought it was the state Supreme Court, did this get to the US Supreme Court?

[u/Mentirosa → u/zerocoolforschool]

It made it to the US Supreme Court

article

[u/zerocoolforschool → u/Mentirosa]

Okay thanks. This article that you posted didn’t reference the Supreme Court and another article that was posted specifically mentioned the state Supreme Court.

[u/deadliestcrotch → u/Mentirosa]

The governor could have single handedly prevented this after the Supreme Court refused.

He just did this for others in may:

https://governor.mo.gov/press-releases/archive/governor-parson-grants-eight-pardons-commutes-two-sentences-during-april-and

[u/LowDownSkankyDude → u/Mentirosa]

It was brought to Kavanagh who presented it to the court. I'm genuinely curious how that went down.

[u/cruznick06]

Andrew Bailey and Mike Parson MURDERED Marcellus Williams. 

There is ZERO reason this man had to die other than their own bloodlust.

[u/Eternal_Revolution]

“The science that claims to prove innocence as well as guilt has not yet reached the point of resuscitating those it kills.” A. Camus

[u/Apprehensive_Fruit76]

All these Christians going for the death penalty, morally bankrupt people.

[u/Script_Less]

Why do people say stuff like“I can’t believe it happened” to stuff like this when it’s been happening for over a century in America. If this stuff is still happening in 2024 it will again in the next decade, and the ones after…

[u/Phantom_Taker]

I'm just really depressed right now. No one was able to stop this, those who had the power to just didn't do anything. I don't care how just it might be to kill criminals risking even one innocent life isn't worth it.

[u/echolog → u/Phantom_Taker]

The ones who had the power to stop it actively forced it to happen. There was an agreement signed by the judge AND the victim's family to have him plead no-contest to first degree murder and serve life in prison, but the STATE attorney general and STATE supreme court blocked it and opted to kill him instead.

[u/asianxxurlacher]

Wow that’s tragic man

[u/Pourkinator]

And people wonder why a lot of us have no faith in the system

[u/duskrat]

Shame on Missouri, on Missouri's governor and courts, and shame on Scotus. This was a murder.

[u/sn34kypete]

I genuinely think that the Governor of Missouri just wanted to have blood on his hands. I don't know if they just enjoyed the power or if there was a racial or religious motivation but they wanted him dead.

It's an unpopular opinion but I do think there are crimes worthy of death. This was not one of them.

[u/gavran5]

Vaya con dios. May he be one of the last ones murdered by the state.

[u/beardedbast3rd]

What’s wild is that not only did the AG push back, and the State supreme Court, but the fuckers in charge of executing him as well. How anyone in good conscience go through with it, knowing the bullshittery taking place, is beyond me.

[u/DL25FE]

“Missouri murders a man”