r/todayilearned • u/Ill_Definition8074 • 12h ago

TIL In 2019 a Japanese University student studying ninja history turned in an essay written in invisible ink. The words only became visible when the paper was heated over a gas stove. Her professor without even revealing the whole essay gave her an A.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49996166
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u/DeviantDragon 11h ago

I think it's kind of a reasonable lesson though. Make sure you're delivering on the core requirements of the assignment and then you can add your own spin on things. It's how the real world can be.

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u/sticklebat 4h ago

I understand your point and kind of agree with it, but I disagree. My single overriding goal as a teacher is to foster a joy of learning in my students. It is by far the most important thing to me. One of the fastest way to kill that joy is to take something wonderful they’ve done and tell them “meh, mediocre,” even if it’s because they missed part of the point of the prompt. I’ve had students turn in work to me that wasn’t exactly what I assigned but was far more meaningful, and I think they deserve to be rewarded for it. 

Depending on how important I feel the missing component is, I might just let it slide and tell them to be mindful of it in the future; or I might tell them that I love what they’ve done and want to give them a corresponding grade, but can they please go back and incorporate the missing aspect or address it in a separate addendum? 

The day I get work that a child clearly poured themselves into, did a good job, and took the initiative to be creative and do something outside the box that clearly took much more effort than a conventional attempt, and turn back a rubric with one element circled in red as missing with a grade of a B and nothing more is the day I should quit being a teacher, because I’ve forgotten the whole point of why I’m doing this.

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u/SaintUlvemann 10h ago

It's how the real world can be.

The real world is sometimes oppressive, but class ideally should not be...

...and the reason why not is because kids learn more when they feel like their efforts are being respected.

So whether the teacher was in the right, would depend a lot on what the rubric item was that was forgotten. What was the teaching value of that rubric item? Was it met in an alternative way by what the student did?

I'm not above giving a motivated student a B or worse if they missed the point, but I'm also not above giving a student who broke the rules an A if they understand the material.

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u/DeviantDragon 10h ago

It's not like the student got failed. They got a B and a very specific reason for the grade was given.

Getting discouraged and deciding not to try is an unreasonable reaction when you could instead think "Shoot, next time I really need to read the instructions carefully." I'd feel differently if the teacher gave a B and gave no reason or faulted the creativity specifically.

Here's a real world example. Say a creative agency is making a pitch to the client who is a musician launching a new product. They decide to make their pitch as a music video to show that they're committed to understanding the client and the image being sold. As great as that effort is, if they forget to include a requested element in the pitch (say, the client requested a socal media campaign and it wasn't included), they may miss out on the job.

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u/DeengisKhan 9h ago

I’m sorry, saying it’s unreasonable to be upset when you’ve gone way above and beyond the basic assignment in school, but missed some arbitrary detail the teacher originally intended, that teacher has a stick up their ass and doesn’t remember the true core goal of school, to make learning accessible and enjoyable to cultivate a lifetime of knowledge and learning. As soon as we lose sight of that and dock kids for going outside of the box because that outside of the box thinking didn’t tick a box the teacher just up and decided they needed to tick, that is horse shit and that student becoming discouraged is absolutely the most obvious outcome.

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u/ffddb1d9a7 8h ago

Sometimes going "way above and beyond" the assignment translates directly to not doing the assignment.

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u/DeengisKhan 6h ago

The situation being discussed is about writing a poem for a writing assignment about poetry, that sort of creativity absolutely needs to be cultivated, neither of us were actually there in this scenario, and the whole thing could be made up for all we know, but the idea that you would be here erring to side of yep fuck em he didn’t do the things he was supposed to is the exact kind of person who was also grading him, which is the problem, because being creative at school of all places, which is decidedly nothing like adulthood so pretending it needs to be arbitrarily hard in fucked up and unhealthy ways because it’s “how the world works” is also a terrible argument. We need kids to be happy while they learn, and should commend student who turn in three pages of metered poetry for a recurring short essay assignment.

I read this back and it’s got terrible grammar and spelling mistakes but I’m on my phone and can’t be assed to fix it on my phone, apologies for the shit English.

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u/Unique_Brilliant2243 3h ago

It also not above and beyond, it’s sideways.

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u/EternalSkwerl 9h ago

Sometimes in the real world people will realize you missed a question that they asked and they will ask a clarifying question to which you will respond to it and they will go ah I see that you understand the content thank you.

Real life isn't about gotcha questions and a check-in assignment every few days about different characters in the story is hardly something that needs to be done to a rigorous rubric when it's clearly intended to illustrate General understanding of the material

If they missed a part on a major assignment in a major project that's one thing but something that can be cleaned in just a couple moments of verbal questioning is probably one where you want to have a bit of flexibility

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u/ffddb1d9a7 8h ago

Giving someone a B for doing something completely different from what was assigned is the definition of flexibility

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u/SaintUlvemann 10h ago

Getting discouraged and deciding not to try is an unreasonable reaction when you could instead think "Shoot, next time I really need to read the instructions carefully."

Right, but the question is, do you intend to teach hypothetical kids who get a sense of personal satisfaction out of following the instructions?

Or do you intend to teach the kids who actually exist in your classroom, the ones who have a different emotional framework and have already gotten emotionally invested in your opinions about the work you didn't ask them to do?

Any adult who wants to teach children needs to be aware of what they look like to a child.

Here's a real world example.

Sure. I mean, playing your music at a musician can be risky. Musicians tend to have strong opinions about what music should sound like. I'm not above giving a motivated student a B or worse if they missed the point.

But the reality is, if you make a really kick-ass music video of the client's product, they might want to center their social media campaign around it. Music can resonate with musicians. I'm not above giving a student who broke the rules an A if they understand the material.

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u/tarekd19 6h ago

you're really over complicating this. Kids need to learn how to follow instructions too, no matter how much fun they might have ignoring them. It's more than possible to get creative and have fun with an assignment while also following the rubric.

On the flip side you've got a ton of stories in this thread about creative approaches getting 100/100 for the effort but the teacher noticeably not actually engaging with the finished product. Is that any better?

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u/SaintUlvemann 6h ago

It's more than possible to get creative and have fun with an assignment while also following the rubric.

And if you never reward extra effort, you will get none, because kids obey the laws of karma whether you want them to or not. Your teaching will suffer as a result, and it is that simple.

...100/100 for the effort but the teacher noticeably not actually engaging with the finished product. Is that any better?

Maybe a bit, yeah. Depends on the details. You should do your best to make the kid feel respected, and it's not great not to, but if the pedagogical purpose of the capstone project is to get the kid to demonstrate mastery of the subject, and if the extra effort clearly demonstrates that, there might not be much more the teacher can add by reading every detail.

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u/tarekd19 5h ago

extra effort can be rewarded, no one says it shouldn't, but not at the expense of what is actually being asked for...If you give a customer a fancier product that doesn't actually do what they asked for, they are likely not going to be happy...There's a balance and from the given anecdote, it doesn't appear the student was punished for the extra effort, it was just recognized that they didn't actually do what the assignment was asking of them. Rewarding students for blowing off the minimum standards is just as much a disservice to their learning and development as punishing them for above and beyond. Ideally the student will go beyond while still meeting the minimum standards. If a kid decides their extra effort isn't rewarded properly because they didn't actually do what was asked of them and decides to forego extra effort in general they are missing the point and need to take an appropriate level of responsibility for their own learning. Giving full marks for not actually completing the assignment (ostensibly properly demonstrating mastery of the material) is poor teaching.

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u/agoia 10h ago

This would definitely be a solid A- response to the prompt

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u/terminbee 6h ago

Where do we draw the line? There's very clearly written out requirements. Writing in homeric verse doesn't really show they "understand the material;" it just means they know how homeric verse works.

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u/SaintUlvemann 6h ago

Where do we draw the line?

That depends on the pedagogical goal... which is a different thing than the assignment requirements.

The part we have been told is that the students needed to do "a couple paragraphs" about "a character".

If the pedagogical goal is to get kids to think about a character's actions from the perspective of someone in that world, "several pages" of homeric verse on Telemachus probably met the goal.

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u/Unique_Brilliant2243 3h ago

9th grade is well on the way to a diploma to go to college.

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u/tarekd19 6h ago

yeah, if there is a transparent and accessible rubric, there's not really an excuse for not addressing everything you need to.

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u/diffyqgirl 9h ago

It's true that following directions is an inportant skill, but it still felt like being shat on for caring. I think I might have taken it better if the teacher had given any acknowledgement of my effort instead of just a note about the missed rubric item.